Mr. Ernest Hooks Jr., Architect/ MBA (Part II)

(Continued from Part I…)

What do you think your favorite project has been—the one that you’re most proud of?

One that I’m really fond of that I helped to build was a mid-rise building off of Lindbergh Drive near the Marta station. I was called the Resident Engineer and had to be there every day to monitor the construction.

So I had the opportunity to get hands on with the construction as it went. When they were getting ready to pour concrete, I had to be there and monitor and be sure it was done correctly and write up reports and all that. I think that involvement put a highlight on my whole experience because I was able to see the drawings and be there and help to coordinate the drawings. That was the high-rise right across from the old Lindbergh shopping center. Is it still there? Yes, Marian Road Mid-rise Housing for Seniors it’s still there.

When did you get into writing?

After I did work [in Lindbergh], I got an offer to go to South Carolina as the manager of an office. The gentleman I was working for [was part of] McDuffie and Associates. At the end of the job we were doing in Lindbergh, I went to Orangeburg, South Carolina and stayed there for about a year. While I was there, we did a lot of modifications for the campus to make it accessible for the disable. While I was there, I had the opportunity to go on the campus and go into the French language lab. I did it on my lunch breaks, so that was a real plus to be refreshed and speak some French.

Then, I came back here after working there for a year. In South Carolina, I used to come back on weekends. First, I would drive in my car. Then later, I had a motorcycle for my commute, which was really wonderful. I would use the motorcycle to come back for the weekends. I had to leave early Monday morning at about 3 AM to get back to Orangeburg, South Carolina by around 8 AM in time for work.

One of the greatest experiences I had was that when I left at three o’clock in the morning on the motorcycle, I would be heading east going to Orangeburg, South Carolina. At that point, I got the chance to experience something I had never experienced before: seeing a pre-sunrise sky setting. Then, [I could] witness all the different changes in the complexion of the pre-dawn sky that takes place between pre-sunrise and sunrise. Wow—it was phenomenal. I wrote a poem about it from that phenomenal experience I witnessed.

Mrs. Wilkerson was just in her prime. She lived in a mid-rise down in Summerhill, and she was noticed by Georgia State in an outreach program for seniors. They noticed her work and thought it was extraordinary. Is she the artist [in your children’s books]? Yes. She grew up in a farm down in Covington, Georgia and came to Atlanta. She was married but never had any children. My mom introduced me to her when I was a little boy because I used to pass her house on my way to daycare everyday. My mom would tell me, “You stop by and say hi to Mrs. Wilkerson,” so I would stop by. That’s how I got to know her.

When I came back from South Carolina, I learned that she had moved to a mid-rise, and I would go by to visit her. We had a great bond of friendship. When she died in 1984, she made me one of the exequaturs. Her next-door neighbor was also an exequatur, but her neighbor died in 1990, which meant that I was the sole survivor. As the will said, everything valuable would come to the sole survivor, so all her work came to me. Her actual artwork came to you? Yes, well, I had the rights to all of it. I don’t have all the originals. She has three pieces in museums and some that have been sold. Is it still hanging at the High Museum? Yes.

So I took it and put it in a file cabinet, and that’s where it stayed for probably ten years. One day, I pulled it out and said, “I must do something with this.” After a seminar that I went to at Landmark Education, I decided that I could put all of it into a children’s book. I was torn with whether to make posters to sell or put it into a children’s book. Well, I finally went with the children’s book idea. In the children’s book, one of the features that keeps kids engaged is that they can play “hide and find.” They have to find details [of the paintings] in the picture. That keeps them engaged and tests their skills about detail and recognition at an early age. As an adult, being able to recognize details becomes really important, so if they can get that early, they can be ahead of their peers.

I did that layout and then started seeking a publisher. Finally, Authorhouse came on the scene, and I looked at some of their work and decided, “Hey, I’m going to go with Authorhouse.” I did all of the layout work myself; I used my architecture skills for that. I went back and forth three times. In fact, I had to search very deeply about the text design and how I was going to be able to get something complementary as a text design that could keep kids engaged rather than just reading the text that adults read. I wanted to create text that was going to be playful and unique and keep them engaged, and that’s what I came up with. I love it! How creative!

You know, art has a really great power. I think people enjoy being around art although they may not be artists themselves. So you still have all the rights to all of her work. Yes, yeah. Her nieces and nephews never came back to ask about it? No, she was the last of the twenty-one children, so everybody else is deceased.

Throughout all of your experiences with so many different passions and careers, did you ever have any low points?

Oh, yeah. When I was in college, oh man, it was really something. I was so depressed because of the heavy load of trying to get everything done for classes and all that. It just became overwhelming at one point where I just did nothing practically. My mom and dad were concerned because I stopped writing. I didn’t call because I just was depressed because of the heavy load I had to carry.

How did you get through tough times like that?

I started going to church in Washington with one of the friends I had there. That sort of helped pull me through. Making connections? Yeah, spiritual connections. Then, I had to go on probation as an undergraduate because I was doing so poorly. I learned at that time and said, “I’m going to earn money to help myself.” I went and got a license as a taxi driver and became a taxi driver in Washington DC. Wow! What a challenge to drive there! (Laughs…) Oh boy, it was! I had to learn the buildings, the routes, and all of that stuff, but God pulled me through all that.

I established a foundation after I left meaning to build on that. While I was in the military, I learned Italian since I was in Italy. I was already familiar with French, and then I learned Italian. That was enjoyable.

Now, the next chapter that I’m looking at now is to go back and refresh myself by revisiting the languages and also going back to the piano. I’m really studying Beethoven’s Symphony in C-sharp minor, Moonlight, so I can be able to play it. I think that’s wonderful! It’s cool how you weave all these skills together, like how you weave your architecture skills with writing the children’s book.

The whole game is once you have a suitable product, you have to have enough vision to look ahead and see what your next product is going to be (laughs) or else you’ll be out of business. When I’m talking about branding (we’re talking about branding a lot in the class I’m taking now), once you get established with that first product (no different from Apple, Microsoft, or anything else), you’ve got a customer support base. It’s easier to sell that second product to that base that you have than going out and finding a new base. That’s what you do: you offer and create a market for those people and offer opportunities for them to come and get the second product and then the third product. Then, you just keep going. I think it would be interesting to see what the next opportunities are. I’ve had offers from an agent who wants to consider licensing a publisher outside the United States to use the book in a different language and get royalties from that. I’m looking at that as maybe an option for the future.

Once we got the first volume done, I had to go back and scrap all the text because I wasn’t satisfied with the text. I said, “Well, it’s got to be something to keep kids engaged; it can’t just have regular text.” All the books I saw on the shelf just had regular text. Kids see things differently from adults, and I really realized that. Recently, I tested a young three-year-old. I was using the chicken [illustration]. I made some of the letters bold and large, and I recognized that they were user-friendlier to the three-year old. She was able to see something bigger. She did not know the word l-o-o-k; she knew the alphabet, though. Then, when her dad and I asked her, she could read the letters with confidence, and we sounded the word out for her. She would beam! (We laugh…) He was happy, too, so he bought the book.

She was alphabet-ready—ready for the book. She got inspired, and that inspiration caused her to go on to another word. That was the real advantage there. Her dad and I were off to the side talking about something else, and she and her little brother were playing a game of “hide and find” in the book. That’s great! So it’s great for all age levels. Oh, yeah. Mm-hmm.

So here’s a bird’s eye view of what it was like in the farm culture. Clark Howard said that he didn’t learn that food didn’t come from the factory until he was nine. I gave Clark a complimentary copy and was trying to get this to be a part of his Christmas kid project. He came back later and thought that it wouldn’t be a good hit. I haven’t given up, though. After that Children’s hospital campaign that WSB did, I called in and offered to be able to share some of the proceeds from books, so they asked me to call next year and do that. I’m hoping to maybe get some press out of that. It’s all marketing now.

The original idea was to put the contents of Volume I and Volume II all in one volume. I had a lot to share, so that’s what I did. I put it all down at one time, and I recognized the fact that for any future projects, that would be a good way to do it: put everything that you’ve got to give together at once. Then, you came back, and the board says that it’s too much for them to absorb. Then, do two… a second volume, so I split it and put it into Volume I and Volume II. If I had not done it that way, I would have been slow to come back and do a Volume II. I already had all the contents and all the data, so all I had to do was change the introduction to be able to reflect on both books, so that’s what I did.

Did you make the children’s reading lists [in the back of the book]?

No, Marva Collins [made them]. Marva came out of Chicago and had her own school—Westside Preparatory. I called her and told her I was working on a project and sent her information. She loved it, and she wrote the forward. It’s interesting to me that she put Oscar Wilde in here because I never think of him for youth, you know. She has Dante, too. Yes, see Marva was teaching classics to her students. The benefit she got from teaching them the classics was that they learned early what the shortcomings of adults were through all of the classic characters. Therefore, in real life, they could be able to identify similar characters because things haven’t changed. Love and hate still exist, and they would be able to recognize them. So their maturity level was far better than their peers. Yeah, that’s smart.

 

(To be continued in Part III…)

Mr. Ernest Hooks Jr., Architect/ MBA (Part I)

Parents: Allie and Earnest

 

When were you born?

I was born in Atlanta. I’m a Grady baby. (Laughs…)

What do you remember about your childhood? Were you an only child?

I was an only child up until I was around five or six, and then, I found out that Dad had two daughters from his previous marriage. Those two daughters came to visit me in Atlanta. I don’t remember much about it because I was about five or six. They stayed a short while, and they were in their teens and going through that adolescence stage. (Laughs…) I think Dad took all he could take, and then, he sent them back to their mom, who was in Detroit. So for that brief moment, I got a chance to meet them, and I didn’t see them again until years later when Dad and I went up to visit them in Detroit.

What was life in Atlanta like when you were an only child?

I lived in the city and went to a daycare center: Gate City Daycare Center. In fact, Mom told me that at six months old, she took me there because she went back to work. At Gate City, I had the opportunity to really interact with other kids, and that was a good part about that experience. Then, when I saw other kids leaving the daycare center to go to school, I knew I had the passion, and I wanted to go before I became be six. Oh, wow! My dad told me that one day, I did actually go with them. I wasn’t supposed to go, but I went with them anyway because I was just so envious of everyone else going. I wanted to go to school! (I laugh…)

After that adventure, I had an interesting experience at Young Street Elementary School where one of the teachers was one of my next door neighbors – Ms. Rebecca Dickerson. She was always there to encourage me and treat me with favor. When I left there, I transferred to C.W. Hill Elementary School where her sister, Ms. Sanona Dickerson taught. She kept an eye on me to make sure I got engaged because I was shy at 10. She wanted me to get me involved at twelve years old and really start being outgoing.

Then, the time came when they had a school function that was planned for the Atlanta City Auditorium. They needed some students to play Indians in that particular skit; she put me in that role. (Laughs…) I had a big chance to do self- expression whereas my shyness would have kept me away from it if she had not been there; the opportunity to interact was really great for my early development.

Following graduation, I went to Howard High School. It was exciting because one of the first classes I had was health. (I was really very excited about learning.) I can remember that the instructor had to leave the classroom for a moment and he gave an assignment for everybody in the class. He said, “Hey, here’s the definition of health, while I’m out, read it, understand it, and be able to tell me when I return.” So, we were little eighth graders, and everybody got busy doing something else. But I started studying and reading, and when he returned within 20 minutes, he asked for students to recite the definition for health. I stood up and did it. That was a proud moment for me to be able to recite the definition from memory ahead of the rest of the class.

During those early years, Mom was teaching me to play piano; we were taking lessons together. Dad didn’t have any interest in that, so I used to go with her. But when I got to high school, I decided that I wanted to play the trumpet, so I requested for her to get me a trumpet. Of course, she wanted me to stay with piano, too. I said, “I’ll come back to piano later!” (Laughs…) I wanted to play the trumpet, so I could participate in the high school band. That’s what I did.

I started with the trumpet, but then, in order to move into the big band—there were two many trumpets, so Professor Days said he needed some tuba players. I switched over and started playing the tuba. So you got to play all those different instruments! Yes, I got to play the trumpet, the tuba. The tuba was very similar to the trumpet for fingering.

Then, we went on a concert. We did some of the classical pieces, and then, we had the marching band pieces, too. We did both, like in the winter, we would probably do classical pieces, and in the warmer months, we did the marching pieces. So I had an opportunity to perform a tuba solo, and I performed the tuba solo at one of the functions that we went to. That was quite unusual, then, as I think back, but it was rewarding to be able to do that.

By graduation, Georgia Tech was close by, but segregation laws prevented me from applying and attending. So I got a State Aide Scholarship to go to Howard University in Washington, D.C. I went to Howard to study architecture. By 1962, I went into the Army and stayed for nearly two years. I spent sixteen months in Italy. I was stationed in Vicenza—a little south of Venice and north of Florence and Rome. I studied Italian and European architecture while there.

I got a chance to plan an extended trip while there; I planned that trip to travel and see as much I could see of Europe. I took leave for thirty days and traveled to many cities of Europe. I started in Vicenza, went down to Florence; then to Rome, and then to Naples. I stayed in hostels in each one of those places, and [staying there] was about fifty cents a night for students. Really?! Yeah, yeah. (Laughs…) Then, I moved around there, went down to Naples for two nights; caught a U.S. Military flight from Naples to Barcelona, Spain. From Barcelona, I hitchhiked up to Switzerland. That sounds incredible! Yeah! It was fun; it really was. Then, I went back into Italy. All alone? Yeah, and I was hitchhiking. That was really, really fun… but challenging.

Was it kind of scary? Oh yeah, it was, but I got a chance to meet some really cool people at the hostels. Then, after that, we communicated for a while and then just lost track of each other. It was a wonderful experience because there was one guy, who was from Cleveland, who had been spending the summer in Israel teaching English. He and I actually hooked up in Rome and agreed that we were going to hitchhike together. Well, another American (laughs…) came by, and we got a ride with him! We went from Florence down to Rome. Then, I met three girls who were actually in Europe for the summer and were from New Jersey, and we started touring together.

At that time, we had a book called Europe on Five Dollars a Day. We were finding places that we could eat for little or nothing; we were using the book as a guide to find those places. We toured through all these places and really enjoyed it.

Then, one night, I got to Rome, and it was too late. [The hostel] did not have any more bed spaces, so we got offered to go up on the roof! (We all laugh…) So we had a blanket, went up on the roof, and stayed on the roof! Slept under the stars! Yeah…

I met some guy from Australia while I was there at the hostel in Rome. We were meeting people from all different cultures, and it was great just being able to have a conversation. We went to Barcelona, met some students there, and spent some time looking through the architect Gaudi’s work. Then, we took a hitch from Spain on up through Switzerland, spent some time there, and then came back around to come through Italy. Wow. Yeah, so it was rewarding! It really was.

I kept a log through part of the trip, so it’s refreshing for me to go back and read that, too. That really opened up some whole new worlds of conversation that I haven’t had before. Travel is one of the greatest educators, I think, that one can have. I just wish it were possible for more of our kids to be able to have that experience early, and I think there would be less friction between other cultures if they were able to do that. I agree. They would be able to help understand other cultures and other religions. Mm-hmm, right.

Then, I came back in about 1964, and Atlanta was in a transition period as far as race relations go because there was some pushback. Dr. King had the Montgomery bus boycott and had come to Atlanta doing some work here trying to get equality.

Shortly after I came back, I found a job as a draftsman for an architect down on West Peachtree Street where the old Marta station is now. Miles Sheffer was the architect, and he hired me, and I started working there. The upsetting first surprise I had was that I had already been to Europe (meeting people from different cultures and enjoying their company), but then I came back and wouldn’t get the opportunity to eat lunch at a local drugstore. That made me a little frustrated. I would explain and say that I had been out for two years in the military in defense of the freedoms of this country, and you’re saying that I can’t come here to eat? Shortly after that, I think that policy changed.

From that point, I worked for Miles Sheffer and went to other architects for opportunities. I worked for a Greek architect who was also an instructor over at Georgia Tech for about three and a half years. Following that, I went to work for Sheetz and Bradfield, which was one of the leading firms in Atlanta that was doing a lot of housing—multifamily housing. While I was there, I was qualified to take the architectural registration exam and became a registered architect. Was that hard? Oh, yeah—very difficult, but it was rewarding for the amount of time that was invested.

Then, I did some small projects on my own since I had registration, and I went to work for a larger company. Maynard Jackson [the first black mayor of Atlanta] was in office at the time, and I worked for M.A.P. (Magnusson Architecture and Planning). They had a piece of the contract to do the old airport—not this new one, but the one before this one. It cost a lot—350 million dollars. Whoa! Yeah, so I was on the team for that. That sounds exciting, though. Did that team work together well? Mm-hmm, it worked out quite well.

After that job, I went to several other positions in Atlanta. Then, I went to B & E Jackson Associates, which was an architecture and engineering firm. For continuing my education, I proposed to him to allow me to go to Harvard because they were cutting-edge on a lot of the new strategies, techniques, and all that. So I went there and became a whole lot more knowledgeable on indoor air quality. Oh, wow… Yeah, from 1989-95, I was going there over the summers to really be able to be in the professional development program. So every summer, you went up to Cambridge? Yeah, yeah. That is so cool!

So I got to enjoy the environment of the Harvard Square. It’s like a comedy just to be able to see all the different characters there. Several musicians were seen on the street. I guess that was the highlight: you would hear the musicians as they played their instruments, and you would just be able to reflect…

Then, I wrote a poem about the experience that I had there. Writing is my second passion. I think it’s wonderful because you are such a creative person, but then you have the math and the really analytical stuff too with architecture. Yeah, so then I had a real high after I was able to write the poem about my experience there.

Also, I went to one session [at Harvard] and had the chance to interview one of the instructors. That was one of my goals—to have an interview about architecture with one of the instructors there. I did that at the Harvard Club. We were sitting outside, and I had my recorder, such as you have there (laughs). I interviewed him and then came back and had to transcribe. I actually offered it for publication in the AIA Newsletter, and they accepted it. That was a really nice benchmark. Was he a professor in your department? Yes, in architecture. Ken Demay was the gentleman I interviewed; he’s deceased now. We had a great interview session at the Harvard Club during my brief visit as a summer student.

Later, I got really enthusiastic after being able to do that interview, so I went and contacted MIT, which is a short distance away from Harvard. The architecture head, who was at Harvard before, was unable to be there, but he sent a substitute, who was a British fellow. We went to the cafeteria at MIT, and I did interview him, which I still have to this day. I have the recordings. (Laughs…) I said, “While I’m here, I might as well make the best of this moment and get all I can within this short time span,” so I did that. It’s great to go back and reflect and hear those recordings again.

One of the last recordings I did was with Ike Saporta, who was a Greek immigrant architect. He retired, and he had a world of knowledge. This man spoke about six different languages. He was educated in Germany. His parents sent him there at about twelve years old, and he knew some of these leaders in architecture. He worked for Le Corbusier, the Swiss architect! He worked for Walter Gropius, too, before Gropius left Germany and came to Harvard as the head of architecture.
Saporta knew Gropius back in Germany for the Bahaus movement. The Bahaus was that group of imaginative, creative artists who got together and wanted to be able to create products that common men and women could afford. That was interesting for me to be able to hear him talk about those experiences. He also mentioned that the unfortunate changes came after Hitler was elected in 1933. Free thinking institutions, such as the Bahaus were shut down because they didn’t want freethinkers. I think Mr. Saporta left Germany shortly after that since he was a Greek jew.

It brings up confirmation when I hear the subject come from somebody who was there [during events] of which you’ve read. I thought that was really great. I had these recordings in my library, and I can go back to listen to them. It’s really refreshing to be able to hear that history.

That was another chapter that I completed. Then, I met Jefferson Brown who was my associate here in Peachtree City in architecture. I met him at Harvard, and then we talked about coming back and doing some projects together. When we got back, we made contact and started a project together. It came out real well. That was twelve years ago.

 

(To be continued in Part II…)

Anonymous (Part III)

(Continued from Part II…)

How did you decide that you wanted to be a nurse?

I like science. My older sister wanted to be an engineer; she liked math and became a math professor. My other sister likes books—law books. She memorized a speech from beginning to end.

I’ve always liked science, even when I was little. I liked to look at science pictures and science books. My dad always said, “Why are you looking at all those science books about how your heart works?” I just always liked to do that. That’s how it is, though; you find what you like to do, and then you study it. You go into it, and the deeper you go, the better you like it. The human body is a wonderful machine. Treat it well. That’s good advice. Treat your body well, yes.

Did you and your husband travel around the world?

Oh, yes. He traveled to Japan for work. I was supposed to go with him, but I couldn’t go because when I didn’t work anymore, I volunteered a lot in the library and was the school nurse. I was busy all the time, sometimes doing home care for elderly friends. See, I learned how to use my time; you have to be efficient because there’s a lot of work. You don’t get much time for yourself, but you don’t need time for yourself! (We all laugh…) You can always go to sleep.

What is one of your main accomplishments that you’re most proud of?

Everything. Sometimes, when I was young and working in surgery, we would get patients from France, Libya, and Algeria. There was a princess, a very nice lady, who needed surgery at our university hospital. I was asked to fly home with her after the surgeries. So I did. I could just stay a couple of days and then go back to work.

I’ve always liked adventure. That’s great that you jumped at any opportunity. As long as I was available… I just used all of my days off because in France, we didn’t have many days off, but that has changed a lot in the last fifty years. In France at that time, we worked six days a week, but I tried to introduce them to the five-day work system, which was hard to do (with new laws for the workplace and muck more). Now, it is done.

I also tried to install the new intensive care for big surgeries and to train specialized nurses. That’s why my surgeons sent me there [to the United States]. So you could bring back these ideas and concepts. Right, to work more efficiently.

You said that reading was one of your hobbies. Do you have any other hobbies that you do right now?

Well, I swim everyday here, and in the wintertime, since the pool is not heated, I go to our gym and enjoy the spa. I always have much writing and reading to do.

This is just a funny question: if you could support one genre of fine arts, what would it be?

I love the symphony and Opera, operetta. We love pretty music in my family. My sister was a pianist, and her husband was an organist; I think he played every church organ in Europe. He’s a great person. I like music—concert music, and when we were young, we all played the piano.

Have you had any pets during your life?

Who has time? If I lived in the country, I would like a Great Dane. I love the Danes. Some French have Danes; they’re just adorable dogs. I don’t like the little Chihuahuas. (We laugh…)

What are some of your philosophical beliefs about life?

You have to enjoy life. You have to be happy with what you do. Don’t look down at what you could’ve done; do it! Do something nice. Have life in you. Be energetic. Help someone who needs it; there is plenty of need for it.

Yesterday, looking down from my balcony, I did a lifesaving act—poor guy. I went down to the pool fast. He couldn’t get out of the pool. He’s a very nice person; he lost his balance. He couldn’t get back on his feet, so he was hanging on the handrail and just lying on the steps. He couldn’t figure out how to put his feet down. He kept on lying there with his head in the water off and on and called for help. He thanked me profusely afterward.

How would you define a successful life, and what do you think has made your life successful?

Just having a positive outlook on your life, and listen. There’s so much to learn from other people, and I’ve learned from everybody. I learned from you. You’re pretty young to do all that [interviewing]. Are many young girls interested in that nowadays? Would you like to become a journalist or a writer? You are on the right track, already a Girl Scout. Congratulations. Thank you so much!

I know my granddaughter’s boyfriend is a nice guy; he is an Eagle Scout. He is very outgoing, plays the saxophone well, and is always helping someone. You have to prove a good attitude and respect and stay dedicated to your work, your faith, and your actions. I think you’re right; I think it’s the way you grow up, too. Yes, you have to be taught when you are young. Yes, and seeing the way things are when you don’t have food and learning to survive. It was tough… even now, see, because you still have that barrier. I can still remember when my parents were mistreated. You know, you don’t forget that in your life, but you will try to forgive. It affects you in some ways, and I know some people who do not know what war is, only when you are in the middle of it. But science is interesting; science is so wonderful. Now, they have come up with this nanotechnology, though; I haven’t gotten that yet. (We laugh…)

It really is amazing how technology has opened the doors to knowledge and everything. I know; it’s amazing. It’s unbelievable, but my husband had, at that time, a lot of knowledge about that. When he started with his company in programming—when I met my husband (husband-to-be, at that time)—his company in the 60’s had computers that were big drums. The computers had to sit on a solid big block of cement with a certain cool temperature in the room. And the printouts… they were little strips of paper with holes in them. I would say, “How do you read that?” He would say, “Oh, I can read that. It’s easy.” (We all laugh…) It’s totally different, now.

It’s mindboggling how technology came from those big drums. It was very expensive to have those machines in the office like that. They got smarter and smarter—and now those computers are getting smaller and smaller. I have to learn how it works. Well, we will never know enough; the children will learn and know much more in the coming years of their use.

You can find all kinds of information and much, much more. Now, I have a cell phone. My son would say, “Keep your phone hanging around your neck, so you find it fast when I call; it might be my last call.” When he learned to fly helicopters, he was in Kuwait and Korea.

Were you really scared for [your son when he was overseas]?

Yes, I was always worried for him. He’s doing a very good job, like his dad. Now, I get after him because he’s too strict. He says, “Mom, you taught me that.” Yeah, right… (We laugh…) Blaming it on you… He’s so efficient, too, and with a good memory. I guess I had a good memory, too, when I was younger.

When I was working, I used to go climbing in the mountains—high mountains, on a rope. That’s amazing. What kind of mountains have you climbed? In the Alps. You have to go to the Alps if you go to Europe. You haven’t seen Europe if you haven’t seen the Alps. I remember one named L’aiguille du Midi, which is part of the High Alps, which is about 15,000 to 16,000 feet high. If you climb up that mountain, you’re going to see the world.

Did you climb it? No. On the ropes you did, wow. We went down by skiing. That’s a major accomplishment. That’s amazing! That’s one thing I learned when I went to college. In high school, we didn’t have time, and it was a very expensive sport. You need a lot of training before you climb high. We didn’t have time because we had so much to learn. So, in college, you learned how to ski, and you skied down that mountain. Yes, but slowly. It was fresh air; I’ve always liked fresh air. Fresh air is important, not air conditioning.

What advice do you have for young people, like me?

Learn, learn, learn as much as you can, and I add, you never stop learning; it is an ongoing process. There’s so much to learn, to see, to hear. Help others. Stay mobile, stay active, stay in good physical shape. Eat the right foods, but do not forget to pray.

Anonymous (Part II)

(Continued from Part I…)

What were high school and college like for you?

High school was wonderful, and we lived in Strasbourg, which was a very big city. So, you went back to Strasbourg to your house? Yes, after the war, we went back to our house; that was a relief. With what little we had, we were happy. Dad never complained; he was happy, and so were we. Of course, it was hard when the Nazis were looking for him, especially for my mother. I remember, one time, I was crying. Then, a soldier hit me in the face to be quiet, and I fell against the wall and got a bloody nose.

So, in high school, it was wonderful. I went to school in Notre Dame Catholic high schools. It was bombed during the war; my sister was there at that time. Then, the school closed, and we attended public school. My mother had the perception that it was daylight again. We could talk; we could breathe; we could pray.

During high school and college, we always excelled. My older sister is a brain; she’s a walking encyclopedia—both of them! Me—I’m more sporty and outdoorsy. I knew I had to learn it, though, so I had to study hard during my spare time.

College was a wonderful time in my life, and that town had several big colleges. As our home was only a few miles away, we never had to be in a dorm. We could always go home. That was wonderful… so we never really experienced the dorm life.

When I was a student nurse at the hospital, we had to spend sometimes months where we had night duty. That was very difficult at the beginning, as you had to be up all night. While you were studying to be a nurse? Yes, in training. Did you work in a hospital? You had to do practice time. You had classes in the morning, and then in the afternoon, you had to be with the patients on the floor—or patients in the morning and classes in the afternoon. You had several years to get your degree to become a R.N. (three or four years), but there’s always more to learn. Anyway, that’s college, and both of my sisters went to college for many years.

What kind of things did you do for fun as a teenager?

You know, we didn’t have much time. We had fun going to school; that’s fun, you know. To me, that’s enough. We had to get to school on bicycle or by the Rail Tramway—the electrically connected thing. After the change to the bus system, people liked it; the bus was so much more accurate time-wise. We started the hospital training for my classes at seven o’clock in the morning, and for some classes you had to come back in the afternoon. In some areas, we still used the Tramway. It was running until late evening. Buses were sometimes caught in a jam; I remember that, but all went well.

You could not be late because nursing in the fifties was a very strict life. Do you know the name Florence Nightingale? Mm-hmm… Who was she? Well, I know she was a nurse. Wasn’t it during the war? Yes, she was rigid and our director! She was British, and her first name was Florence, too. (We all laugh…) It was very good, though, to learn how to do nursing.

Anyway, later, I started to learn to play tennis… and swimming, too. Swimming was mandatory during the German time. You had to be fit, so we had swimming once or twice a week—45 minutes in the swimming pool. There was a big bathhouse because Germans are crazy with fitness. You had to be fit; you had to know how to march, you know. And this was when you were little, too? Yes. The bathhouse was a big building with a huge pool, and it was three meters deep (that’s about ten feet). And, we would jump. Oh, I love to jump! (We all laugh…) My sisters didn’t like it, but I was more daring. They were more daring with the books, and I was more daring with traveling and exploring, but I enjoyed learning about geography a lot.

When you were in high school or college, did you do any dating or go on any fun dates?

High school… we didn’t have time—no dating. We were three girls and enjoyed it. It was always possible to bicycle, to swim, to knit, and we did a lot of hiking on the weekends. It was not part of our life. I only learned about big “graduation” when I came her in the US. We were having a reward but not a class “cap and gown” celebration.

With our parents, we had lots of games and quizzes about our lessons. That was very challenging. My wonderful mother used to be a teacher. My sisters were brilliant, so I had to keep up with them… like it or not. (We all laugh…) But I sincerely have to compliment them.

Well, I remember that during the winter season, on Sundays, we did family games (memorization games), and everybody played. Oh, and we played the piano; we all played the piano. We played six hands on the piano when we were young. My mother also played the violin. We played piano a lot and had to practice, as we had lessons, rehearsals, and recitals. We always played by heart. That’s the only way to retain it. Memorization is good, but my mother always said, “Repetition is the mother of learning.” Tell that to your children.

When did you meet your husband?

One of the surgeons (a brilliant guy) with whom I had worked for about 15 years had just come back from a big surgical convention in St. Louis, Mississippi. He came by and said, “I want you to go to the states for an exchange program.” That’s how I got here! My mother said, “Why do you want to go there? Okay, learn more and learn well.” (We all laugh…) “Make sure you take advantage of what you learn.”

It was a magnificent three-year experience from New York to the west coast! American nurses went to France, and French nurses came to the US. At the time, you had to pay your own way, but in return, you received your salary. Every hospital required paperwork. They had you tested in the English language, your knowledge of R.N., and the specialty you requested. You had to be working about ten or fifteen years in your field before you could inquire about an exchange program.

For example, one of my girlfriends wanted also to apply; her specialty was kidney dialysis. We graduated at the same time with high grades. We never knew how high up we had graduated, though; we never tried to find out until then, as we had great jobs. We were at the top. We were both happy that we had graduated high in the class.

Where did you stay in the United States?

First, you had to look for a hospital offering exchange programs. The first hospital I went to was in Seattle, Washington because my girlfriend said, “We better start on the other side and work our way back.” (We all laugh…) She said, “If we start in New York, we’re never going to make it to the other side.”

It was smart because the hospital in Washington State was a wonderful university hospital. (We tried to be at the same hospital.) In France, at that time, she was in the medical ward, which was a different building than where I was; I was in the surgical building. Anyway, we had to choose a good hospital, and we got lucky. You could not stay more than one year in one place, but you had to stay at least six months. It was perfect because we had a whole state to explore… even the American continent.

When we finally made it to the hospital, we had different tests and all routine for work. It’s funny because there were other nurses in the same classes who wanted to get a job at that hospital. We did better than the American kids. It made us think, “What are they learning?” (We laugh…) “Cream of the crop,” they called us.

Washington was a nice state. We had patients from Alaska because in 1963, there was a big earthquake. Do you know anybody who was in that earthquake? It was an 8.2 earthquake, a very big earthquake. Half of Anchorage fell in the water. It was very bad, and some patients still had surgeries a year after that.

We went to see a patient’s home in Fairbanks, as it was a “log-house.” It was beautiful, and they kept it warm by hanging big “bear furs” all along the walls—great insulation. It’s very interesting; we saw many eagles. I had never been in a log-house before. It was wonderful, so we did quite a bit of exploring. One time, we went there in June on one of the longest days where there was daylight past midnight. We were up all night flying back to Seattle, and before seven o’clock, we were at our job. Did you get any sleep? Oh, I do not believe so, and we worked hard and well that day.

After that, we went to Arizona. Oh, and that’s totally different! Yes, and a great state with a beautiful desert. We wanted that because they had a good program, and we wanted to go out there to see the Grand Canyon and the famous cacti.

Then, we went to New York at our nursing job. That was only available at that time. It was the big Bronx hospital with many patients; we worked on double shift.

Which was your favorite place? Do you have a favorite?

New York, I loved New York at that time.

So, through this program, you were able to travel?

Oh, yes. Because we could work in general schedule well and organize our days off (we usually had an eight-hour workday), it was paradise. In France, we had longer hours in a workday, up to 10 or more per day and 6 days a week. We worked from seven o’clock in the morning to ten o’clock at night six days a week in Europe! But here, we worked double shifts often to midnight (from seven to three and three to midnight), and I was back the next morning at seven. You have to be determined and motivated to work. I don’t regret anything; New York was a great place to work and to learn.

When you came to America, I bet you discovered a lot of cultural differences. Did you like the cultural differences?

I expected that because I was told about it. You have to be informed, especially if you want to get a paying job. Also, you have to have an assigned doctor as a sponsor before your arrival, who checks on your work and gives you important information about work ethics, etc. I returned to him or her my reports.

I met my husband in Arizona.

The sponsor, a surgeon, had three sons, and one of the sons had an office next to my husband-to-be (all in the same building); he had a computer business there. The son invited my husband-to-be to the farewell party for the nurses. His Dad said, “Why don’t you come; we have some French, Australian, and Swiss nurses.” Even some young Swiss and British interns were part of it. It was wonderful.

So that’s how you met your husband? Yes, that’s how I met him. It was in Arizona. It’s nice and sunny and warm with palm trees, which are a delight to see. It was gorgeous. My husband-to-be said, “It was nice meeting you. I think I might come to see you in France.” I thought, “Yeah, you will…” (Laughs…) He did! He came over there to see me… he wanted to meet my family and tried to talk me into coming back over here.

So, you actually went back to France after… Oh, yeah, after the three-year program, you had to return and bring back to your country what you had learned.

When he came to France, he arrived about four months later. He came right away to the hospital where I was working, went to a waiting room, and with the Big Boss passing by, asked him (in French!) whom he wanted to see. That was a big new story that day.

Before I left from the US, I had planned another last class there about the BIRD breathing machines, adaptable for babies or adults. I don’t know if you know what a Bird machine is. It’s a breathing machine used during surgery or for other things. That was back in the United States? Yes, that was in Palm Springs, and he said, “Okay, I’ll come see you.” So he was persistent! Yes…

When did you both get married?

We got married in 1968. In France or the United States? Here [in the United States], and one year later, we had one son. He went to West Point. He’s now past forty. He was tiny when he was born, really tiny—five pounds, but he made it. He’s a big boy, now, in the Army and is also a pilot. (We laugh…) Yep, he flies helicopters. Later, he married, and he has a lovely family with four beautiful children.

Do you remember what your wedding day was like?

Wonderful. We were married just past 40 years. We had a great life together. He was a very caring, generous person. He has a lovely family, still living in Texas, and we all spend so many interesting celebrations together. I am so happy about that. I will keep alive those special memories.

My husband died too fast, after only a few weeks. Was that recently? Just four years ago. That’s why my son moved me here (talking about the retirement community). He didn’t want me to stay in California. I had a beautiful house—a big house, big garden with peach trees, grapes, fig trees, apple trees. I miss that, but my son wouldn’t have time to go back there; it takes a whole day to fly there. He’s so organized and meticulous just like I used to be. Everything has to be just right; he has zero tolerance with it. (We all laugh…) He’s fantastic.

Did you and your husband keep French traditions in the family?

French traditions? I wouldn’t say so. Did he already know French when you got married? Some, we went there about every year when my son was growing up, so he could learn languages. He spoke French and learned Alsatian—it’s a dialect. He was very good at learning dialects.

 

(To be continued in Part III…)

Anonymous (Part I)

 (Born 1933)

 

I was born in France. My family lived in France, and we were three little girls. My dad built a house in 1938 outside of Strasbourg, which is outside of Paris toward the German border. I was five years old, and my sisters were seven and nine years old. In 1939, World War II broke out, so then we had to leave our lovely house. We had to get away, so we were evacuated from Strasbourg. Can you imagine a dad who just built his house debt free and then had to leave it?

My father was raised in a nice, little town in Alsace. His father was the mayor of the little town. His grandfather and back to several generations, relatives were also mayor of the town. They were very hardworking, nice people and a very interesting, motivated family. They had a big farm with lots of grapevines, wheat, and hops and also chickens, cows, horses, and greyhound dogs.

What town did you grow up in?

It was a suburb of Strasbourg. My father built his house so that we could see the majestic and beautiful cathedral, built over 1,000 years ago, just about three miles away, and to admire it from our balcony. I remember well, after the war, the cathedral bells were always ringing every evening at ten o’clock for fifteen minutes. It was and still is so beautiful and added many lights.

Did you all go to the cathedral in Strasbourg every Sunday?

Well, we were three miles away. My dad had a car, but we also had bus transportation or Tramway. Do you know what the Tramway is? It goes on rails, the connection is electric wires, and it doesn’t make any pollution. It’s nice, and it’s quiet.

Nevertheless, we were evacuated in 1939 for two years, and my dad sometimes tried to go back to Strasbourg, but the Gestapo were closing roads in our old neighborhood. It was an organized place; they wanted to live in our house. We had a telephone in there. My dad was so worried, and we were young.

He was an engineer. He graduated from engineering school in Strasbourg when he was 21 years old. He was a very smart person and liked mathematics. He was very worried about what would happen to the house—the beautiful house, the beautiful cathedral. Sometimes he didn’t come home fast; my mother worried because you could not drive many kilometers. Whenever he didn’t come home, she worried that he got caught by the Gestapo, which happened. It happened? Oh yeah, it happened… Then, they searched what could be in his car.

Was it really scary? Did you and your sisters realize what was going on?

Well, my mother was a teacher, teaching history and French. She was also born in Alsace, and her parents had a bakery store. She loved history. (I didn’t like history because it’s just what you saw around you at that time.) We were often scared, very scared. Next to the house we were in, the neighbor was a butcher. Actually, he was not a butcher; he just had a big farm. I know that sometimes, the Nazis came and wanted a pig, so he had to kill a poor, little pig. You would hear the pig squealing; it’s unpleasant to hear when you are young. I always felt sorry for that little pig. The Nazis were the only ones who got the meat. Normally, we didn’t get anything. It was a very poor living—not poor living, but there was nothing available.

What town did you all evacuate to? Was it still in France?

At the first house, I don’t remember the name. I was trying to look for it in my old school papers to find the name, but I did not. It was still in France, further inland, away from the border.

The second town was a bit larger. It was a nice, big house and used to be the City Hall. Two staircases brought you to the ornate door. We lived there in two rooms, looking down at a garden where there were lots of tall weeds. It seemed also dilapidated and half destroyed on one side, and there were lots of holes on the neighbors’ wall. There were five of us there. I also remember a beautiful roof with colored tiles; a lot were broken or missing.

Was it in the countryside or further south?

The second one was closer to Strasbourg. The first one was more in the countryside, and it was a hilly area.

Our mother was protecting us very much from the things that could happen… if the Nazis snatched us, you know. It was hard, but we survived. We could go back after two years to our big home. My dad had a sister who had a big farm, and she would get some food for us sometimes, like a little bit of fresh butter or eggs, because we were so limited on what we could buy. We had the coupons, and you could get maybe a loaf of bread for the five of us a day; that’s it.

We were very limited on what you could get. It was very hard, and my mother was so skinny. A little bottle of milk was sometimes all she could get for all five of us. I remember one time, I tipped the glass over at the table, and so I licked it off the table because it was still good. It was on the table, but it was so good. You don’t want to lose that because when you don’t have any food, it is precious. You lick every drop of it because it’s good—delightful. Even water was good.

Did you have any animals—a cow or a chicken?

Animals? No, you couldn’t have any animals. Only if you lived in the countryside—you might have a dog or a cat, but no, you would need to feed them, too. To have a chicken would be beneficial; an extra egg would have been a luxury.

Did your family know any Jewish families who lived in Strasbourg?

Oh, a few of them. They were hiding. Some people were hiding Jewish people. That is why the Gestapo was always searching, but beware if they found some hiding.

Anyway, after that, we returned after about two years, but the war was still going on in Italy. In our neighborhood, the Battle of the Bulge was going on. It was not far from us. When we got back home, we had to go to a German school there. And participate in the Hitler Youth? Oh, yes, and if you didn’t do it, your parents were penalized. So, we learned. It was a tough time.

My dad had a radio, but they confiscated so much in your house. They knew we had a radio and wanted to take it away, but my dad was hiding it very well. One of our neighbors was helping my dad because he was not going to join the Nazi Army. So, our neighbor was hiding him. We didn’t know, and then, we were searched by the Nazis. They would kick our door open and search all through the house.

Was this in the house in Strasbourg or after you evacuated? This was when we came back to Strasbourg, yes. That was really tough because they kept a good watch on us. It lasted several months (when he was hiding), and then, he knew through the radio that the Americans were landing in Normandy. It was no time to go outside your house because there was a man always leaning over on windows, helping the Nazis, and giving them information. So he was a spy? I do not know. It’s so amazing that I still remember that guy leaning on the window all day and all night. He never rolled the shutter down, so he could always watch the neighborhood

Another of our neighbors across the street was the owner of the brewery. He often invited the Gestapo and Nazis to his house. His son, who was my age, kept telling them, “We are still speaking French together when we play.” We were born as the French, but we had to learn German at the school. You had to be careful to whom you talked and be aware of suspicious people. A lot of suspicion… We learned more about diplomacy after the war; they talked to us about that at school—the behavior and mentality of people, especially in wartime when food was scarce and when people were under much fear and stress.

Who talked to you about that (the mentality of people)?

In schools and our parents. My mother was really good at that. You have to be very careful about how people judge you and how they defend themselves about it, how they are just pointing their fingers at people even though they are the ones who are doing the bad things. (During the nights when they were searching, they would just kick our door open, search every corner, throw everything out of the closet to find something French.) My mother was hiding the French books very well. She was a teacher.

So, they were just trying to erase French culture and submerge the country with German culture?

Yes, the school was pretty tough, and the teachers also. Were they really strict (the teachers)? Yes, and when you are young, it has much impact on you. My older sister was thirteen by the end of the war, and she even had to dig ditches. You were really supposed to be fourteen and a boy, but she was thirteen. She had to go to dig ditches already. Ditches for…? Yes, they dug deep ditches, so the Germans could hide in ditches and shoot at the Americans when they came. Oh, like trenches. The children were the ones who had to dig those? Wow, I didn’t even realize that. Yes, and she was only thirteen. Did you have to dig, as well? No, I was only nine.

That was during the last five or six months before the Americans landed in Normandy. When the Americans arrived in Strasbourg in their huge and heavy talks, all the houses were shaking, and they threw us chewing gum.

Did you say that Strasbourg was the city that you were born in?

Strasbourg is in Alsace, I was born in Lorraine, and my dad was a surveying architect, surveying the city. He was also an engineer, and he graduated in 1921. He was born in 1900; he was just twenty-one years old. I have some nice pictures of him where all the men had hats on. Did you know that? They had hats on! (Laughs…) They were very stylish and dressed up in their suits and their ties and everything.

I think it’s wonderful to be so in touch with your heritage.

Yes, it’s important. I think it’s very nice. My older sister was a mathematician, a great mathematician, a doctor in mathematics. She taught math to the guys who went to the moon. It’s above me. (Laughs…) In this country? In France.

My son, along with Dad and I, flew over Europe often so that my son would learn English, French, and German because Strasbourg is Alsace. (Usually, here in the US, it is called Alsace-Lorraine, 2 different counties.)

Could you spell the name of the town you were born in?

Metz. M-e-t-z. During the war, they built a big Maginot Line. If you like history, you’re going to have to learn that. They built it so that the Germans wouldn’t pass through there. Oh, we learned about that! And they thought that the Germans wouldn’t be able to pass, but then, they passed through Belgium, right? Right, it was a big battle, “The Battle of the Bulge.” Four of my mother’s cousins (four boys) were all shot. Even two of them were at a much younger age. Oh, it was just miserable, so sad.

I remember so much about the Nazis because when you are young, it stays with you for the rest of your life. We are very sensitive of what we see and hear. You do not grow out of it. Every war brings back memories. You have a fearful reminder as you live through each other war. A lot of children in Iran and Iraq—do you think they’re going to remember all that? They’re going to remember that, whether in a good way or a very bad way.

All of my sisters and I have three names Do you go by both names, like double names? Not really, but we record them as they are in many documents, on passports and others. (She tells me some of the names.) They’re beautiful names.

Yes, the saint of Odile was the daughter of an emperor from Alsace-Lorraine from the time of the 4^th century. A very intelligent person (the emperor)—he built castles and had a lot of land and horses, and the castles still exist! Those constructions are incredible and strong. The entrance or hallway was where the hunters would leave their gear and things like that. They would have the most daylight beams going into the dining room through small-shaped windows, and the walls are thick like that (showing me how thick they were). So, how they could build that is unbelievable! And you’re going to learn that; you have a lot of things to learn. (We all laugh…)

You’ve told me a lot about your childhood. What was it like when the war was over?

When the war was over, we were happy. We could buy a little bit more because when you would go to the store, you had a little more coupons. There was a change because before, there were Gestapo in the store to make sure the store wouldn’t give you extra food. If the bread weighed too much, they would cut a piece off—if it was more than a kilo. It was by weight, not by loaf. They wanted to make sure that you didn’t get too much. (I groan.) Oh yeah… (Chuckles…)

Children need to learn by example not to waste food. They need to appreciate how it is made, how you grow the grain, and that you might not have bread tomorrow. It’s a very precious thing just to make bread. It’s a lot of work; have you ever done that? Well, I haven’t made bread with yeast and everything to have it rise, but I’ve made banana bread and stuff like that. It’s different. Yes, usually, you have to depend on the sun and the rain. You know that? It’s the way to survive because you could lose all your food. And they were working hard—those people—to make their food, to make grain, and to make wheat (you need wood to make the fire). Wow, I bet. Just like the Indians.

I will always remember that our first Christmas after the war, we could buy little Tangerines. They came all the way from Algeria, and they tasted sooooo good. We did not have any during the war, and even on that Christmas, we had just five of them, one for each.

Well, I appreciate everything I have. I worked hard for all my life; I worked a lot. I think that’s great. It’s awful when people take things for granted. Oh, yes. It’s nice that someone works hard so that you can have an easier life later on. We just have to stay healthy.

 

(To be continued in Part II…)

Mr. Norman Petterson (Part III)

 

(Continued from Part II…)

The person that I really wanted to tell you about—her name was Annette Custler. She was a wonderful, wonderful lady. She was born in Rhode Island. Her father was a theatre organist, so he started teaching her organ at a very young age. She was an organist at her church for sixty-two years. Wow. The only reason she retired from that was that the organ was in the choir loft. It was a very large church, and it got to the point where she was having difficulty getting up to the choir loft. I would drive her there and help her up the stairs. She was just a marvelous organist. She was also a classical pianist, and in her living room, she had a baby grand piano.

The way I came across her is that she worked for the Rhode Island Council on the Arts. The producer of many of the festivals I was involved in became the Poet Laureate for the state of Rhode Island and met her through that and started the first festival in Rhode Island. She was a really key person in helping to put that together. She always had a great interest in music and the arts and all. She owned a house that was like a three-family house—three stories, and she had lived there since childhood. She married. She and her husband lived there, and her husband passed away. She never drove; her husband always drove her everywhere until he passed away. She was in her 60’s at this point and said, “Well, I guess I’d better learn how to drive,” and started driving.

In the early years of her marriage, she and her husband had a son. When he was five years old, he had measles, and the doctor overmedicated him and caused brain damage. Basically, the state placed him in an institution for the retarded, and it was not a very pleasant place. She became a real activist about changing things. Ultimately, she put together a group of people who spearheaded the creation of group homes where they lived in a home setting rather than an institution. It was really wonderful that she did that, and it really made a big difference to shut the place down.

Also, she became involved in politics through that. She became the chair of the Rhode Island Women’s Political Caucus. As such, back in the Kennedy administration, she had dinner at the White House a number of times. She would go to barbecues at the Kennedy compound in Massachusetts at Cape Cod. She had all sorts of memorabilia from that—photos, a program and menu from the dinners at the White House. It was absolutely delightful to look at some of that stuff and listen to her reminisce about some of it.

When we were doing the festivals, the producer and I actually lived in our office. It was two apartments. He would go back and forth to California because we did festivals out there, too, and I did some of that, as well. It was wonderful to sit there, and the phone would ring. Annette would say [on the phone], “Jeopardy’s about to come on. Do you want to come down and watch it with me?” So, I’d go down and watch it and answer the questions.

My duty on every Sunday morning was to go down to the local pharmacy and get two New York Times papers. In the magazine section, they had the best crossword puzzles in the whole country. What we would do is we would each do the crossword puzzle in ink and see who could finish more of the puzzle. (We laugh…) Who would usually win? Well, it was pretty much back and forth because we were very similar. It’s funny because sometimes they would have a theme to the puzzles that was kind of humorous, and that part, both of us usually got.

We would do things like she would cook and say, “I’m making such and such. Come on down!” Or, “I called and ordered a pizza. Go pick it up!” At least once a week, we’d go out someplace for lunch. She had her favorite restaurants; there were about six of them, and we’d move around to each one of them. We would never go to one twice in a row. She was one of the most wonderful people I’ve ever known in my life. Nothing would put her down. She was a fighter, and she had the most wonderful personality, very upbeat. Whatever went wrong, she would just do what she had to do to try to make it right. She never wallowed in self-pity or anything. She was a great role model.

At one point, she had fallen. (She lived alone.) She said, “Maybe it’s time to be in a place a little more secure.” Her nephew was an attorney and did some research, and she went to live in a former Catholic convent that had been converted into kind of a group home for the elderly. It wasn’t really assisted living, like some of them, but a lot more independent living. People helped out with whatever she needed, and she had her own space. So it worked out for her, and she enjoyed it? Oh yeah, it worked out very well. Of course, her attitude was such that she was happy to be there. She loved everybody there, and everybody loved her. She was just absolutely a wonderful role model. That’s one of the things I wanted to relate as far as people in my life. Well, I love hearing about her, especially with her son and the work she did with that because I know that must have been really, really hard.

Yeah, they used to bring him over to visit, usually once a week. It was funny; in the beginning, he was very protective of her. He didn’t want anyone else around. Of course, she would make sure that when I was there, I would come down and say hello, and so would Franklin, who was the producer of the festivals. It got to the point where we were the only two that he accepted being with her. That was another thing that was so delightful. He was happy to see us when we came.

Did she ever do a lawsuit against that doctor?

She tried, but he was very influential and connected, so it never went anywhere (despite her connections). He didn’t have the best reputation as a doctor; he had other interests that were more his focus. Well, it sounds like she was a wonderful woman. Yes, she was. She was one of the most wonderful people I’ve met in my life and a great role model.

Mr. Norman Petterson (Part II)

 

(Continued from Part I…)

How did you get involved in all these amazing things? Did you just reach out and find them?

Sometimes I just stumble into things; sometimes I seek things out. It is amazing how when you are open to things and listening, you can pick up on fun things to do. One day, I was watching the news, and they were talking about how to be an extra. So I went on the Fox News website, and there was a list of ways to get involved.

Actually, just down in Fayetteville, there is an old farm being converted into a sound stage. They are building there, and I have worked there some. It is really expanding the industry here. This is now called Pinewood Studios. It is across from an elementary school, which has just been sold. This is something good to think about for possible jobs maybe in the summer. It doesn’t pay a lot, but it is a good experience. They might just ask you to speak and then move you up [in the industry]. It was not a long time from applying to working. I signed up with different agencies and got emails from them soon. They let you know what they are looking for. You don’t always qualify. You submit photos—a headshot, full body, and upper body, but they don’t have to be professional shots.

What about your family?

My dad’s name is Norman. I have exactly the same name as my dad, but I am not a “Jr.” It was not put on my birth certificate. My mother’s name is Harriet.

Were you an only child?

I have a sister who lives in Florida. I am the oldest. Her name is Joanne, but she is called Jo.

What was your family like when you were growing up? Did you get along with your sister?

We all got along and had a good time whatever we did. Both of my parents were very happy people who loved to explore. We were interested in history and music. My mother was very musical; she played piano well. She never took a lesson; she played by ear very well. She would play in local establishments and did a lot of blues music. She was very good and had a good voice. She was the life of the party. She had that kind of personality. My father was not quite that much like that, but somewhat. My mom would know all the people in the stores as we shopped. I got that from her. Part of our job was always to brighten up the day of those we met along the way no matter where. My mom also worked as a waitress, so that made me a great tipper. Being sociable and compensating others for good service is important. I’m not very shy, if you’ve noticed that! (We all laugh…)

Do you remember what your first job was?

I worked in a local gas station. I pumped gas, washed the windows, and checked the oil. New Jersey actually has a law that you cannot pump your own gas. They still have attendants for that.

Did you ever have any pets when you were growing up?

I had lots of dogs and cats. I love animals. I have a miniature Schnauzer now. I could become an animal hoarder; that’s how bad it is. (We all laugh…) I visit Pet Smart on adoption days and always want to take home more animals. I once saw a dog like the Little Rascals’ dog, and we called him “PD Pit.” He had the eye patch and was irresistible. I understand Pit Bulls; so many people train them wrong. I’ve had a couple and have loved them immensely, and they were great dogs.

I have also lived in Connecticut and Massachusetts. I had a Pit Bull named “Pup.” Her best friend was a strange-looking dog—half Pit Bull, half Dachshund. It had a beautiful, muscular body and little, short legs. I was always afraid that it was going to be walking along and keel forward because his head was so heavy compared to his back legs! (We all laugh…) His name was “Sluggo.” The two would play incessantly. There was a fenced yard that was not completely fenced, but they would stay back there in the fence and play all day.

Have you had role models when you were growing up?

Actually quite a lot, but they’re some of my old friends who have gone on to some wonderful things. I’ve actually kept in touch with them. Sherwood and I were friends ever since Kindergarten. (I think the world of this guy.) His family moved to another city about fifteen miles away. After high school, he went to West Point and did a tour with the 101^st Airborne in Vietnam. Then, he went to helicopter school and learned to fly Hueys. On his second tour, he began with medical evacuation. He got tired of getting shot at, so he changed to gunships. Then, he went on to be a fighter pilot and then a test pilot. He then went to the astronaut corps. He did five trips where he was the lead chase plane. When they reentered the atmosphere, he would follow the shuttle down. When they built the arm for the shuttle, he went out and took his extra vehicular trips to work on the space arm.

A friend of mine’s mother was the seamstress who made the suits for the astronauts, and that is something you don’t make a mistake on. She lives in Rhode Island. Sherwood lives in Texas now. He retired from all that and became a consultant and did test flights. His degree is in engineering. He’s a brilliant guy and very down to earth. When he would come visit, he would visit the schools, do presentations, and bring things for the kids. He was an outstanding person.

A couple other good friends ended up in the movie industry. In the movie Good Morning Vietnam, the mean sergeant that was always dumping on Robin Williams was a friend of mine. We were social workers together. I played football with his brother and did some stage work with him. He went off to be a character actor in Hollywood. He played a nasty chamber of commerce guy in an old movie. We kept in touch until he passed away in Acapulco of a heart attack.

I have another funny story that goes with that. His family owned a video store. When he would come home at Christmastime, he would work there. One time, a young lady came up, and she had one of his films. She looked up, looked down, looked up, looked down, and looked back up, and he just nodded his head. (We all laugh…) He was James Woods.

So what’s your wife’s name?

My wife is a charge nurse at Piedmont Fayette Hospital in the orthopedic unit. Her name is Tammy, and she is my second wife. My first wife was Debra, and we are still close. I got married just over a year ago in May, and for our honeymoon, we went up to New England and spent a whole day with Debra and her family. It felt great to still be considered part of the family. They’re a great bunch of people.

Tammy has a great history herself. She was in the Air Force doing advanced life support working with F111 fighter-bombers. She helped put in the seats and made sure the equipment was all working before they went off on their missions. She actually got to take a ride in one. It was a two-seater. The pilots love to take people up and get them sick, but that did not work on Tammy! The pilot did a full vertical take off. The suit inflates to manage the air pressure. They were in Turkey when she got to do that. Tammy was also stationed in England for quite a while. She also played volleyball on the Air Force European volleyball team and traveled all over Europe. Up until 2 years ago, she coached volleyball also with a couple of schools in the area.

Another thing I stepped into was a local ski and sports club. I emerged as a leader for the two clubs and put together trips. I organized skiing, whitewater rafting, and co-ed volleyball teams. It was great to get paid to organize all that and get to do it. It was northwest of Montreal, Canada. I wouldn’t even want to attempt that stuff anymore. (Laughs…) Actually, I wouldn’t mind rafting again because that is not so difficult. Canada is a wonderful county; there is so much to do there. Most of my time was in the eastern portion.

Do you happen to speak a language?

A bit of Spanish and a bit of French. Quebec is a beautiful and historic city. Canada is fun to visit. Montreal is another great city to visit. They have lots of winter activities, and they build this ice slide near the harbor. There are rivers that freeze over, and you can skate on them. There are horse carriage rides with fur blankets and lots of good food. I encourage people to travel to learn about the world.

What did you do when you worked with Delta?

I was a ground person working with International Reservations and Corporate Customer Care. I listened to peoples’ complaints and gave them extra frequent flyer miles and such. It was fun. I met a lot of friends that way. I did not want them to go to another airline. I tried to make it right. I started with NW Airlines, and they were bought by Delta. One of the good things is that Air France is part of Delta. They had reservations in Montreal. That shop got closed and routed to Tampa. If they spoke French, we had speakers for that. We also took calls in emergency situations. Luckily, we never had to implement that. If we had gotten the work, we would have had to stay until it was all over. There are cots and food, and you just have to stay. Just like the situation in San Francisco. That is not an easy airport to land in.

On a brighter note, one of my musician friends was coming to one of my festivals in upstate New York (he, his wife, and his son), and they were on the United flight from Colorado to New York that lost its hydraulics and cartwheeled on the runway in Sioux Falls in flames. Over two-thirds of the people survived. My friend, his wife, and his son survived. In fact, they made it to the festival! A taxi pulled up, and I said, “Is that really you, Pete?” He said, “Yep.” I said, “Alright, I’m not going to ask you.” He said, “It’s alright; you can ask me. One minute, we were flying and the next minute, I was standing in a cornfield. The three of us were standing in a cornfield, okay, not a scratch on us, but what happened in between I couldn’t tell you. I don’t remember any of that.” Wow. I guess it’s probably better that he doesn’t remember. Probably; it would be too terrifying. That would be awful.

I’ve heard a lot of your hobbies. During retirement, other than being an extra, what other things do you do for fun?

Well, I travel, enjoy time with friends, take pizza to the orthopedic unit about once a month, play with my dog, hike, and walk around a lake nearby.

I live off a dirt road, and it stays smooth after they grade it until the next rainstorm. I have the house with the all the turkeys in the yard. They are there a lot. There are four houses on the 75 acres. We don’t have any horses. Our house is actually a rental. The other houses are all part of the same family, and they are absolutely delightful. The husband is eighty-seven, and the wife is eighty-four. They still drive the tractor to keep the yard up. Their sons own the other two houses. There is a cell phone tower at the edge of the property. Funny how folks want better service but not the towers.

What are some of your philosophical beliefs? Have they changed over time?

1. Treat people well.
2. Stay away from drama and trauma as much as possible.
3. Have a lot of faith.
4. Life will go by without fuss.
5. Pay attention. It’s amazing how the doors will open for you.

Have you supported specific causes?

I participated in lots of walks and fundraisers for many different things. Right now my focus is animals.

What problems today are you most concerned about?

The hatred that exists in this world bothers me a lot, and the attitude that if something is happening in this world, we should go stop it. It doesn’t stop. We used to laugh at the Russians who dashed in everywhere, but now, we go. Being the world’s police officer is not a good thing. We cannot turn the world into America. The most historical issue is France and the “ugly Americans.” People go into places and say, “How come you don’t speak English?” We cannot expect everyone to be like us.

Immigration. I love the cartoons of the Indians with us coming ashore—“Yes, may I see your papers?” (We all laugh…) We were all immigrants at one time. We harassed all the Native Americans and did nasty things to them. A lot of people now politically have images of “Well, we’ve got to make the country what it was when the Constitution was written.” You can’t do that. They say that before we had any income taxes, we had schools and roads. Sure—dirt roads, wonderful school houses the community built. (We laugh…) There was not much to education then.

And, another attitude that has been bothering me recently is the legislation in NC to make school attendance optional. Since schools aren’t doing the job well, home schooling is becoming more widespread. The parents are saying they pay for this and that for public school and the kids are not learning. I can’t believe that is actually happening! I can’t either…

It is not that all people have always agreed on politics. Back when the founding Fathers were writing up the documents, there was a lot of disagreement. All the “moral” people who founded the country were not all necessarily moral. They drank; they gambled. Anyway… Politics… (We laugh…) Our looking back at the past has changed our attitudes and what we choose to remember about these people.

Here is one sidelight of history… coming back to the Revolutionary War and all: I was in the Revolutionary Militia in Rhode Island, which was chartered in 1774. We would be in the parades and functions and fight mock battles. We were the first unit to be formed in the state of Rhode Island and continued right through.

One funny thing that happened back during Revolutionary times was when a British ship, The Gaspee, was sitting out in the harbor at Newport, Rhode Island to collect taxes for Britain. One ship, Hannah, sailed right by without even stopping. The Gaspee took off in hot pursuit. The captain of the Hannah knew where the sand bar was in the harbor, so he sailed right for it. The Gaspee ran hard aground on it! The Hannah sailed right on to the dock and unloaded the goods. A group of the prominent Rhode Islanders was by the docks and got an idea. They jumped into boats, paddled out, and captured the captain and crew from The Gaspee. There wasn’t much they could do. The captain was held at a house on his own. The crew was in a house near the cove. The Americans set The Gaspee on fire.

Ever since, every year there is a two-week celebration: “The Burning of The Gaspee.” That was one of the first shots that was fired in the war.

During 1776, the Bicentennial year, we also got to participate in the reenactment of the Battles of Lexington and Concord. Since we had red coats, we got to play the British. It was fascinating! People don’t really know the inaccuracies of the ride of Paul Revere. He couldn’t just ride around saying “The British are coming!” because everyone was British. What he did say (and quietly) was “The Regulars are coming,” meaning the regular British army. He also never made it to Concord. There were two other riders. One was a doctor, Dr. Prescott, who did make it to Concord. Why did Paul Revere get the credit? Well, he was the one who saw the signals at the old North Church.

We worry about what has happened in the current conflicts of the world. Our soldiers all have on uniforms, and they stand out while the other guys just look like regular people. Where did those people learn the technique of guerrilla warfare? In the Revolutionary War, the British wore the red coats and marched in formations. They were easy to spot. The Americans just looked like farmers and hid behind the trees and rocks. It’s an interesting way of thinking about it.

What has made your life successful and happy?

People’s happiness depends on themselves. You create your own happiness. You find things that you like. You do things that make you happy.

What advice do you have for young people?

Find things you enjoy in life. Treat people right. Go in directions that interest you.

Here is a story about being in the right place at the right time. One of my greatest joys was being a member of the Rangers. It was just before July 4^th, 1976. The seamstress was not able to finish my jacket in time for the parade. This is the oldest and largest parade in the whole country. The parade started in 1792, and it is five miles long. So, gee! I wasn’t going to be able to march in the parade. Our colonel asked me, “Weren’t you a drummer? Do you think you could still do it?” I said “Sure.” “You must know rudimentary drumming.” “Of course, that’s what you start with.” “Good, we need you.” Well, here I was in this huge parade, me drumming along with two ladies paying fife leading the parade as the spirit of ‘76. I had a bandage on my head with fake blood and all that.

With most parades, they send out a couple of police cars to clear the road, and they always did in that parade… except for that year. We were all set ready to go. It was funny because I knew the director for the parade that year. He was a friend of mine who got involved in politics, and he was a state representative and all this. He said, “Okay guys, here’s the deal.” “What deal?” “You are literally leading off the parade, and the police cars will be behind you. It will be magic; don’t worry about it.”

Sure enough, as we turned the corner from the side street to the main road, it was like the parting of the seas. And it was one of the most thrilling events in my entire life. People would yell out to us as we went by. It was magic. It was a huge yearlong celebration of the country’s revolution. Everywhere you went it was a celebration. There was a huge, tall ship celebration in Newport, Rhode Island. Over seventy ships were there. It was a great year for history buffs.

Is there anything else you want to talk about?

Well, on my mother’s side, my grandmother was English/Scottish. My grandfather was French. On my father’s side, my grandmother was Swedish, and my grandfather was German. Pretty much all over Europe! We were all first and second generation. My great grandparents came over from Germany and Sweden. My grandmothers came over a generation before. I have a cute story about my grandmother.

My grandmother and great-aunt—it was Christmas morning, and they had wanted a piano. They were so excited, and they were pretty sure that they were getting a piano for Christmas. Well, also, their mom was going to have a baby. Christmas morning, their parents called up, “Come see your Christmas present!” They go, “Where’s the piano? Where’s the piano?” It was a baby sister! (We burst out laughing…) That was one of the stories that our family had for years that was one of the treasures. It wasn’t a piano; it was a baby sister. That’s funny. That’s really cute.

One person that had probably the biggest impact on me was my grandmother, my mother’s mother. My mother was born about the end of World War I. Her father was a soldier and “survived” a mustard gas attack. This was a nasty injury from World War I. It caused bad breathing problems. He passed away when my mother was three years old, so my grandmother was a single parent. Back in those days, that was not a common thing. She got a job in a local mill where she could walk to work. She was basically a cleaning lady and was treated extremely well by the bosses. She worked there for tons of years. That was the only job she ever had. She raised my mom and became a significant part of my life. She was a beautiful woman. I got a lot of my attitude from her. She taught me that ‘if life you gives you lemons, you make lemonade.’ I spent a lot of time with her, and she was an absolute sweetheart. I spent a lot of time with her. My mother passed away when she was fifty-four. My grandmother still lived on and was ninety-four when she passed away. For the last twenty years, her life was without my mother. That affected her quite a lot. This was an unusual occurrence usually. We would get together a couple of times a week. We would either go out to eat, or I would bring dinner over. She just was a wonderful woman who had a lot of good friends and a great attitude about life. She was an absolute treasure.

At this point now, I have outlived the age both of my parents. My mother passed away when she was fifty-four, and my father when he was sixty-seven. Now, I am sixty-eight and still going strong. Not too shabby for a geezer! (We all laugh…) That is another thing about staying active and staying interested in things. It enriches your life so much.

Another philosophy to share—if something is not going particularly well, the best word is “Next!” (We laugh…) You move on to something that’s better. Don’t stay mired in things that are not happy. You won’t be moving in the right direction.

There are two places in Louisiana that were off the main road with good Louisiana music. With one in particular, I would walk in the door, and in some ways, I was like a minor celebrity because people everywhere knew who I was. They knew I was the guy from Rhode Island. Sometimes, I would walk into places, and a band would be in the middle of a song and stop and say, “Hey Norm!” (We laugh…) But I would walk in the door, and the owner/hostess would say, “Oh, just a minute—hey, is so-and-so coming tonight? Oh, okay, you can get her table tonight!” That’s so cool! These little dance halls were sometimes three or four miles off the main road. They had beautiful dance floors and live music.

I don’t know if you know the well-known bluegrass bands or some other types of things. One of the other stories I love to tell is— Have you ever heard of Doc Watson? Yeah! Well, he’s a treasure, and he used to play at our festivals in upstate New York. One of my designated assignments was that I would walk him onstage. He was very picky about who to let lead him because most people didn’t know how to do it. Simple, yep! He put his hand on my shoulder, and I just kind of let him know what was ahead of us, and we’d laugh a lot. He was an absolute treasure and one of the best flat pickers in the world, despite the fact that he was blind. He was a treasure. We used to get some of the true, top-shelf bluegrass bands at the Winterhawk Festival in upstate New York, which ultimately changed to Grey Fox.

We got to meet and hang out with some tremendous, world-class musicians. It’s so much fun to meet some of these people who have had a lifetime of good and bad experiences and who bring a lot of joy to people with their music. Bluegrass people like Lester Flatt, Earl Scruggs, Bill Monroe. You’ve met them all? Oh yeah. Oh my goodness! I got to ride in Bill Monroe’s bus. That’s incredible. They’re really wonderful, down-to-earth people. They’re not like rock stars or anything like that.

Here’s another story. I was at work one night and got a call—a gentleman asking the best way to transport a valuable guitar while flying. I said, “Well, the first thing I’ll advise you is don’t do it as check baggage. Do it as a carry-on.” I said, “Don’t give it to the ‘baggage smashers.’” I’ve known enough people who have had their guitars damaged or destroyed. I said, “Wrap it in bubble wrap, put it in the case, carry it on, don’t let anyone else touch it.” He said, “Well, yeah. It’s a very expensive guitar.” “Oh, really!” “Yeah, it’s custom-made from Santa Cruz, California.” “Oh, okay. It’s a Thomas.” “How did you know that?” “Because he’s the only guitar maker in Santa Cruz who builds guitars that are worth that much money.” He said, “Oh, okay.” I said, “What kind of music do you play?” “I used to play bluegrass.” He’s flying this from Anchorage, Alaska here to Georgia. I said, “Really, did you play with any bands?” “Oh year, I used to play with a Nashville band and two or three other bands.” “Oh, really. Did you ever play at Winterhawk?” He said, “Of course!” I said, “What’s your name?” “Dale Tilley.” “D Dale Tilley?” “Yes, who’s this?” I said, “This is Norm Petterson.” “Oh, we used to eat in between shows!” I said, “What are you doing nowadays?” He said, “I got out of bluegrass, but I’m the pastor of a small church.” He and these three brothers play the music for the church– bluegrass. In fact, they play the most beautiful version of “I’ll Fly Away.”

Here I am sitting there. The whole world calls, and here’s somebody that I had known. Whoa! I love those kinds of experiences.

It’s a treasure. It doesn’t mean anything to anybody, but it’s just a wealth of my experience to come across these people who are all over the world who I was making connections with.

I just read something last night that fits [the topic of your project]. It says how beneficial good memories are. Sometimes, in life, people who have a lot of good memories can survive better because they can go back and draw on the really good times, and it helps to calm them and bring them back to focus. Actually, this is being researched, and so far, it’s really pointing out that that is the case. Yeah, like reliving things that you’ve already done. Yes, bringing you back to the time when things were more even-keel and pleased you. Those times bring you back into focus. It’s too easy sometimes to get lost in the middle of things that didn’t go so great or aren’t going so great. It’s better to say, “I remember when…”

 

(To be continued in Part III…)

Mr. Norman Petterson (Part I)

 

(Born 1945)

Parents: Norman and Harriet

Siblings: Joanne

First Wife: Debra

Second Wife: Tammy

 

I would like to start at the beginning. Where and when were you born?

I was born in Cranston, Rhode Island on February 28, 1945. I bet I am your first New Englander. Yes, you are.

Unlike many post-war baby boomers, I was actually born before the end of World War II. When I was born, my father was actually in the Philippines in the Navy in a PT boat squadron. They were smaller boats that carried torpedoes used for large ships. The boats were only about sixty-feet long, and they had three very powerful engines. They were sometimes jokingly called “mosquitos” because they would like to come in around sunrise sometimes at full speed heading toward ships. They would then fire their torpedoes and zip right away. They were very successful. If you ever have a chance, there is a wonderful movie called They Were Expendable starring John Wayne. It’s a very good movie, and it’s historic. In fact, President Kennedy was a captain of a PT boat in the Philippines. His boat got cut in half by a destroyer, and they had to be rescued.

My father didn’t get to see me until I was about six months old. It was an interesting time for my family. Things were a lot different then; we didn’t have a lot of the things we have today. I grew up in a nice suburban neighborhood. Everyone knew each other. Neighbors would come and go into each other’s houses a lot. It was a lot of fun. I had some good friends. There were many good things for kids to do, like sports and swimming in a pool that is still operating. [The pool] was in a stone building that was built in the 1930s. It has had renovations to keep it up to modern standards. It was walking distance from my house, which made it really nice in the summers.

Did you all go to the beach?

Yes, summers were great. My mom was a beach fan, so we would go often when the weather was good. We would take a lot of friends and food. I would be the first one in the water and the last one out. Sometimes, I would be in there until my lips were blue and my teeth were chattering. Was it really cold in the ocean? In August, the water would get into the high 70’s, but for most of the summer, it was cooler. I loved being at the beach; it was a wonderful way to grow up.

I went to good schools, and I had nice teachers. I remember in 1954, the school I started in was closed. The school was one hundred years old then, so they had to build a new school. I remember marching all the classes from the old school to the new school. One of the reasons they built the new school was because the old school did not have modern plumbing. It was built in the “dark ages.” It did not have typical restrooms. They were “chemical” toilets that had to be pumped out every day. Did they tear down the old school? They did tear down the old one; it needed a major restoration.

I was very active in school. In 5^th grade, three of us were chosen for a special job. We had an hour a day to be stockroom boys. We would go down into the stockroom, get supplies, and then deliver to all the parts of the school using a wagon. It was a great diversion to the day that got you out of class. The three of us loved this work. We were real close friends.

In the 60’s, we were school safety patrols. We did the crossing guard work for the streets because there were not crossing guards like there are today. We would be assigned certain intersections. We had stop signs to hold up, and we would stop the traffic for the kids to cross. One of the nice benefits of this safety patrol job was going to the convention. In Washington, DC, they had a convention for the safety patrols to go to DC to tour. That was exciting because it was the first long trip I ever took.

I was also active in sports in high school. We had generally good teams. I played football, hockey, and baseball. That’s a lot! You played every season. In the summer, we had leagues and summer practice sessions; that was a lot of fun. While I was there, we did not win any championships. Unfortunately, the year after I left, the hockey team started a string of seven years of state championships. (He laughs…) I didn’t get to participate in that, but it was great. I wasn’t the greatest skater, but I had a lot of fun.

I did reasonably well in school. I had a lot of friends. It was a nice school, and everyone got along rather well. I was also in the band. I was very active, maybe more out of class than in class.

What instrument did you play?

I was a drummer in the band. Also, for my 16^th birthday, I got a guitar. (This was back in the folk music era.) I did have a rock band in high school, but I liked folk music better. In fact, I do still have the guitar that I bought for myself after that first one. It is fifty years old this year. It wasn’t very expensive, but I did save up for it.

I went to the University of Rhode Island for college. I was very proud of that. I saved money to go, and at times I worked. Sometimes, I would take a semester or two off to get enough money to go back. I never took a student loan or had a scholarship. I still have the receipt for my first semester: 245 dollars. It cost a lot less back then; it was not all the bad. I wish the cost were like that now. That is not so expensive. It was a lot back then.

I started in music education and then changed to psychology. I had a couple of friends who were social workers, so I figured that I would give that a try. Ultimately, I did, and I spent eighteen years in the social work field. I went from caseworker to supervisor, trainer, and up. It was difficult at times because lots of people were in varying degrees of drama and trauma. It wears you down. Some of the biggest problems are when people don’t realize they are part of the problem. So, I decided to move on from that and go back more to music.

For thirteen years, I was an assistant to a producer that did music festivals around the country—Rhode Island, California, and upstate New York. We featured a lot of music from Louisiana. It was Cajun and Zydeco music. My uncle loves Cajun music. He was the state folklorist for Florida and lived in Tallahassee. I was further south of there in Palm Harbor, between Clearwater and Tarpon Springs. I have lived in a number of places. When I did participate in the music festivals, I would live in three-month segments—half the year in Rhode Island and half the year in California. It was fun commuting between the coasts. I would fly back and forth between them. It was a lot of fun doing the music festivals. We featured folk music, blues, Cajun, Zydeco, and bluegrass.

Was that in the 60’s and 70’s?

No, it was the 80’s and 90’s. I used to attend a lot of festivals in the 60’s and 70’s. Once I got involved in them, it just flourished from there.

I also did a few other things from there. I ultimately retired from Delta Airlines a few years ago. Wow! You were busy. It’s funny because I wasn’t living here when I worked for Delta. I was based in Tampa, Florida. Oh, some of my family moved there. They live in St. Petersburg. I actually go to St. Petersburg maybe 4-5 times per year. My sister and brother-in-law live there. My first visit was in 1950. In 1949, my grandparents moved from Rhode Island to St. Petersburg. We drove there to visit my grandparents. It was all on back-roads because there were no highways. I was five years old at the time, and I still remember a lot of it. It was a really exciting time. It was one of the best vacations of my life that I can remember.

So it was like a road trip. My father loved to drive and had a lot of curiosity, so we stopped to see lots of interesting things. I got my curiosity from him. We did a lot of exploring. It took about a month to do the trip. My dad was a contractor so he could be off. He decided he just wanted to visit his parents; we had a wonderful trip.

One of the exciting things on that trip was seeing a Del Webb community. Del Webb became quite a developer in Florida and owned a huge city called Webb city. It was a drugstore plus, about two stories high. It was a glassed in area, and it had a live mermaid. She had a microphone and she called out my name. “I am so glad you came down from RI to visit.” I was amazed! (We all laugh…) Of course, my father had given her all the information, but it was a wonderful memory. Her name was Lorelei. I remember that much. Wasn’t there a poem about her? Yes.

I settled here about two years ago. Of all the places I have ever lived, I really like this the best. Especially the drive. We are just close enough to Atlanta but yet far enough away. The traffic is easy now that I have learned to get around it. In Rhode Island, I owned this machine service for a few years. I finally gave that up because so many of my customers wanted me to drive them. That took so much time.

I think it’s really cool that you’ve had so many different careers. Well, I knew a lot of people who were miserable with what they did, but they kept doing and doing and doing… They always said, “Someday, I’ll…” Then, they would get to a point where they finally retired, and in a few months, they passed away. They never got to do all those things that they wanted to do! So, I decided—this was before I had ever heard the term “bucket list”—I started living my bucket list. The things I wanted to do and try, I took time to do. And it worked out well. I’ve had a whole lot of great experiences in life. Of course, working for Delta, I got to travel a lot. I love traveling anyway, but that only enhanced it.

What kind of places did you go to around the world?

Oh, I’ve been to Paris, Rome, other parts of Italy, and Amsterdam, but I haven’t been to Asia. It’s something I’ve always thought about, but I never quite got there. I have been to forty-seven of the states. [There are] only three more to go: Alaska, Hawaii, and I can’t remember the last one. I took lots of road trips. I took seven round trips around the country. Once per year, I would drive from California to the east to do a road trip and just to explore. I flew other times. When you took road trips, where did you stay? In hotels and with friends… In Colorado, it is so nice. I had friends there.

Have you read Into the Wild? Yes. It was great to see how he took all those road trips. Is it possible to still do that type of trip (a spontaneous trip without much planning or nights in hotels)?

Yes, it is if you bring camping gear, and if you have friends along the way, it makes it less expensive. In fact, I still like to do that type of thing, and I recently enhanced it a little bit. I saw a camper down on the square for sale, and I had wanted it for a month. It was a 1995 custom camper van, and I ended up buying it. It has captain’s chairs in the back and a cozy living space. It belonged to the man’s in-laws who had passed away, so he wanted to sell it. I had my mechanic look it over. He said it was well maintained and a real steal. It’s a delight! I have not taken too many trips in it, yet.

In September, I plan to take it to Rhode Island to a music festival I used to be involved in. I plan to go to another one I started to help a friend who started another new one. That is still going on, too. Most of the festivals I have been involved with have been going on for twenty-five to thirty years. Are there any festivals in Georgia? No, there are none. I spent a lot of Louisiana, though, for all the Cajun and Zydeco music. I used to teach Zydeco, Cajun, and swing dance. I used to do contra dance also up in New England.

One of the states I have visited the most is Louisiana. We used to listen to the bands and consider them business trips. We would eat and dance our way through the state. It was lots of fun. The producer and I were very close friends. There was actually a woman who volunteered for a festival in California. When we went out for dinner one night, she said she was going to marry Franklin, our producer. I said, “Well… good luck,” so we made a bet. It took eighteen years to happen, but she finally won him over. It was absolutely delightful.

I love Louisiana, but I could never live there; the humidity and mosquitoes were bad. You never could stand still outside at sunrise or sunset because the mosquitoes would pick you up and fly away with you! (We all laugh…) But the people there are wonderful. Have you ever seen the show “Swamp People?” Yes, my brother watches it. It really captures the essence of the people of Louisiana out in the bayous. Most of the musicians are from out there in the countryside. They’re very family-oriented, and they work hard and play hard. The music got started by the Cajun people.

Have you ever read the book Evangeline? It talks about how the Cajun people were originally Acadians and came from Nova Scotia. The English came and basically kicked all the French out. A lot of the French ended up in New England along the rivers working in the mills. The others on the ships came to Louisiana and lived in the bayous because they were not particularly popular. They hunted, fished, trapped, grew crops, and literally lived off the land. A lot of people still do that. Saturday night, they would get together with their neighbors, who were sometimes a mile away, and bring food to share and their musical instruments. They would eat, dance, and sing all night, and it was called a “fais-dodo.” The translation of that actually was for the kids to “go to sleep.” (We all laugh…) They would put the kids in their rooms to go to sleep and then continued to dance and eat and play. They had such fun. That’s what developed the close-knit families and communities down there.

I feel really blessed that I got to know so many different cultures. When I go to Louisiana, I never have to worry about a place to stay. I have so many friends there.

I am enjoying retirement and keeping active. Recently, I got involved in being an extra because the state of Georgia is getting involved in TV and movies. And boy, is that a lot of fun! Just watching the whole process and being part of it is really interesting. I have not had a speaking part, yet, which increases the pay, but I’m hoping I can get to that point. In fact, I did a movie last week—a film about Iran contra about twenty years ago where Iran was funding things in Latin America. Somehow America got involved in that, too. There was a gentleman who was a whistle blower. It’s a movie about him and his experiences.

My car is also getting famous. I have a 1990 Dodge Dynasty that still looks nearly new and has low mileage. Some of the calls I get are for my car. They did a block shot with my car in the middle, and the filming is outside of a restaurant. There are four of us with older cars, and what we do is drive down, make a U turn, and drive back. We all have walkie-talkies. They tell us “Engine on, flashers off, ready roll.” This was in Decatur.

Unfortunately, I did not qualify for Walking Dead because they’re looking for skinny people! (We all laugh…) That’s how they described it. “If you look anorexic, we want you.” Some of my friends are doing that and say it is a lot of fun.

Another film they’re doing is with Robin Williams and Candice Bergen, and it’s a Christmas film. It is a story of a dysfunctional family where the dad and son do not get along. The actor who plays the son is not famous, yet, but he will be. In the movie, the son lives in Chicago. He comes to the family Christmas and forgets to bring all the gifts. They are in Chicago, so Dad and son take off on a road trip to go get them. They don’t get along, so the movie should be hilarious. The scene I’m in is a Christmas Eve service in a church. We had to practice it several times before filming, so we could get the laughter out of our systems. It is a good thing we practiced because it is a very funny scene, which includes some adlibbing by Robin Williams. It should be a fun movie to see. It will be in the theaters at Christmas time.

 

(To be continued in Part II…)

Mr. William J. Bryan III (Part III)

 

(Continued from Part II…)

During your military career—?

I was only in it for four years. For those four years, did you stay in Panama? I had seven weeks of Basic Training at Fort Jackson (April/May 1966, Co ‘A’, 2^nd Training Battalion and 1^st Training Brigade—King of the Hill).

Then, the Army shipped me to Monterey, California, Defense Language Institute West Coast for 6 months, where I was taught Portuguese. Oh wow. Yeah, I had two years of French at Russellville High School in Arkansas and two quarters of German at Georgia Tech, but I wasn’t a linguist! I only took the courses because I was told I had to take the courses. The Army said, “Oh you’re going to be a linguist.” I said (sighs), but it was nice… beautiful. I don’t know if you’ve ever been out to the West Coast or Monterey, in particular. No, I haven’t.

That’s where the people from LA come up to take vacation because it’s so incredibly beautiful. You have the Redwood Forest. Also, you have a tremendous coastline called Seventeen Mile Drive, and that’s where a lot of movies are shot. In fact, they have a regulation that in those seventeen miles, film crews, when they’re out on a boat, should not be able to see any human habitation. They want to disguise it, make it look wild, so that they can film movies. Monterey, California has a lot of movie stars. Clint Eastwood was mayor of nearby Carmel.

This was 1966. This was the beginning of the hippie era, and San Francisco was ground central for the hippie movement. I can mention that one of my first trips to San Francisco was the first time I saw multi-racial couples holding hands in public. Black guys, black girls, white guys, Asians, gays—we called them ‘homos’ at the time. Usually, it was guy-guy. You know, I just said, “I love it, I love it.” Yeah.

I’ll tell one little adventure I had with my buds. In fact, these are the guys from my language school. Three of these guys had advanced degrees. Passehl had a Master’s degree in math. Stigler had a degree; I forgot what his was. And Rooney only had a GED. I think he only had an eighth or ninth grade education, but he was leader of our group. He was smart. That’s incredible.

Our DLIWC class was given a field trip to San Francisco with one of our language instructors, Senor Peiria from Portugal. Prof. Peiria’s car broke down in San Francisco at about midnight. We pushed his car to a safe spot and left a note so that it wouldn’t be towed. We then caught an electric tram and went to a boarding house near Haight/Ashbury and spent the night.

The next morning, I got up early. One of our hosts was making breakfast when the doorbell rang. “That’s probably our mailman,” said our host. “My hands are covered in biscuit dough, would you please answer the door?” I went downstairs, opened the door and took a double take. It was a US Mailman, but he had long, wild blond hair and a scraggly beard, was wearing USPS shirt and cutoff USPS pants, and was carrying his mail in a wheeled gold tote. Welcome to San Francisco, 1966.

Colonel John Boyd is another one of my heroes. He was called Forty Second Boyd. Have you ever seen the movie Top Gun with Tom Cruise? I’ve heard of it so many times. I’ve been meaning to see it. Well, Flight of the Intruder is incredible. I have friends who were Naval aviators, and they really liked Top Gun. I mean, there are lots of quibbles. Give me a break, you can’t have a perfect movie, but the same goes for Flight of the Intruder.

When you’re in a top-gun class like Boyd, you have one plane that is sort of like a target. Another plane comes up behind you, and the clock starts ticking. They say, “Okay, it’s on,” and the person in front is supposed to lose the person in back. The person in back is trying to get radar lock so that they can hit you. This is “funzies” although some people die.

Boyd was called Forty Second Boyd because he could be in an unfavorable 6 o’clock position with the person behind him trying to get radar lock, and he could reverse positions in less than forty seconds, come up behind, and get radar lock—all in less than 40 seconds. Wow. A number of times, they would use different aircrafts—say, an F-14 against an F-16. It did not matter what sort of plane; it was still forty seconds or less that Boyd would get it. That’s incredible! He wasn’t just a great pilot; he was also a tremendous strategist.

When you got out of the military after the 4 years, were you happy that you had signed up for it?

Yes.

Did you get a benefit from it?

Yes, but I felt like I had not done much for the United States. I wanted to be patriotic and all that sort of thing. Other than what happened with the U.S.S. Pueblo, I felt like I really hadn’t done much. I was just in the back doing what we called “Intelligence Grunt Work.” Actually, the minimum-security clearance to work at Ops was ‘Top Secret.’

I got to meet some incredibly smart people. One guy in Panama would read 6 or 7 books a day plus 7 or 8 newspapers. Wow, how did he do that? He just had one of those types of speed-reading [abilities], and he could quote anything you wanted right back at you.

Other guys were tremendous linguists. One of my friends in Thailand—I called him Donald Duck, and I still forget his real name—was another goofy-looking person. Still, he was a phenomenal linguist. He knew Mandarin Chinese, Russian, Thai, Vietnamese, Lao, and a lot of dialects—French, German…

When did you go to Thailand?

That was from June ’69 until I got out in March of 1970.

So did you join [the military] again?

No, I came very close. They were waiving a promotion, pro-pay, tax free, all sorts of stuff.

(Showing me a picture) These people are pinning on E-6 stripes, and this sergeant here was promoted from Buck to Staff Sergeant. He was not a particularly nice guy, but I am going to tell you what a happened a few days after this picture was taken.

He was at a bar in Udorn, Thailand, which was about 10 or 15 miles from our little post, and was celebrating his promotion from E5 to E6. He dropped a 5 Baht piece (Thai currency), which looks about the same size as an American quarter and, at that time, was worth about the same as a US quarter.

Anyway, it was rolling around, and he stomped on it. Well, the whole bar went quiet, and a corporal said, “Sergeant, let’s get out of here; something weird is happening.” The sergeant said, “I want to drink; I want to finish my beer.” The other guy said, “Sergeant, I’m getting out of here” because he saw the owner of the bar tell someone something, and that person went running out of the bar. The corporal said, “I’m out,” so he ran out to the taxi stand. He either took a Baht bus or a taxi.

I was at the headquarters building of Ramasun Station. This corporal came in and said, “Something weird is happening. I’m concerned about Sgt. X.” The safety of him?

Yes. Thailand was very safe most of the time. Thailand is called the “Land of Smiles.” Anyway, he said, “Something weird is going on.”

About that time, the NCOIC (Non-Commissioned Officer In Charge) got a call from the Thai troops in Udorn, and they said, “Get your corporal out of Ramasun ASAP!” “Why?” “There are police, military, and civilians coming because the corporal was party to a high crime of treason against the royal family. You need to get him out RIGHT NOW!” Our NCOIC called the Korat Royal Thai Air Force base about 15 miles from us. “Send a helicopter to Ramasun, so we can get our man off our post ASAP.” Korat said said, “We’ll get him.”

While we waited for Korat’s helicopter to arrive, the Corporal described what had happened in the bar. Another GI who listened to the Corporal’s story gave us another short briefing about Thai customs:

The new E-6 sergeant was arrested because the 5 baht piece has a picture of the King of Siam/Thailand. Putting his foot on the King’s head (on the coin) is an act of treason, a five-year sentence for ignorant ‘round eyes’ (Americans) or a ten-year sentence for Native Thais. Any round eye even only with the person who committed this ‘treason’ would be just as guilty and also sentenced to five years in prison.

Long story short, that was in December of ’69. Sgt. X was in Udorn’s jail, AKA

Udorn’s Monkey House. We Ramasun troopies would make ‘care packages’ with food, clothing, cigarettes, etc. and hand deliver a care package once each day to Sgt. X. I and another Ramasun bud went twice to deliver food to Sgt. X. When we would visit him in the visiting area, he would just dig into the food. Each care package had multiple days’ worth of food, which Sgt. X could use as bargaining chips in the ‘Hell Hole’ jail he was in.

In March 1970 shortly before I left Thailand to ETS from the Army, I saw Sgt. X and delivered another care package to him. Sgt. X said, “I didn’t know, I didn’t know.” Combat vet Sgt. X was crying like a baby the last time I saw him. That’s too bad.

Our State Department briefing that we received when we first arrived in Thailand didn’t tell us that stomping on Thai currency was against the law. I could have been in jail like Sgt. X. There are other countries, most notably Turkey, which have similar laws, and “Ignorance of the Law” is not a valid excuse. You have to know the cultural landmines. 

In general, I know you are an activist now. What problems in the world are you most concerned about today, and what do you think can be done to solve them?

Well, education, energy, environment, and voter integrity are some issues I care about. I have been pushing choice in education via taxpayer-funded vouchers for kids to attend private and parochial schools since 1993. If you do not have a well-educated electorate, you can get people like Obama elected. I suspected that Obama would be very bad for America and America’s Society. By George, he justified my low expectations for him.

According to the US military, an average 8^th grade graduate from the year 1900 had better math skills, better verbal skills, better spatial skills, better all around thinking skills than the average 12^th grade graduate from the year 2000. The US military has been doing massive testing since before the Spanish American War. When I got in the military, you had to take verbal, math, and spatial tests.

We have a lot of junk science, and we have a lot of people that want us to have wars and wars and wars. I don’t want to play that stupid game, but the US keeps on doing it. We keep on turning a lot of our best and brightest people into hamburger meat. I don’t like that.

How would you define a successful and happy life for anyone or for yourself?

When I had my health, I could play tennis and do a lot of swimming or water skiing. I can still swim pretty well. A happy life would be a life of fulfillment and a life where you think that you are making a difference.

For instance, when I started on my quest in 1992 to improve education for kids here in America, there were only three or four thousand kids who were getting taxpayer-funded vouchers to go to private or parochial schools. Now in 2014, there are over six hundred thousand taxpayer-funded ‘voucher kids.’ Maybe a little bit happened because of me.

I’ve been giving these handouts out for over twenty years. The one I have with me was first given out in 2000 when I was running for board of education here. I had bought a house here because they had Vo-tech and college prep together. My son had been to private parochial schools all his life and was going to Landmark in Fairburn, GA, which is only college prep. I love Landmark. My son wanted to do auto mechanics, electrical work, etc., and he was two years ahead of the math programs here in Fayette County Schools.

For my last question, what advice do you have for younger generations like my generation?

Well, don’t focus on the name brands of schools. A lot of people are focused on Yale or Harvard, and that may not be the place they need to be.

As an example, one of my friend’s daughters wanted to go to Georgia State. I said that she needed to go to a junior college for the first two years because it would be a whole lot cheaper and she would get the scut work out of the way. She said, “No, I want to party.” That’s what she did for the first year (partying), and she almost lost it.

I gave the same advice to my brother Brad. I suggested Brad go for the first two years to a junior college, so he did. He went to DeKalb College, which is now called Perimeter College, and he got his two-year degree. All his credits were transferrable, so he then went to the University of Georgia. He got his BS degree in Hydrology, and then he got his Master’s degree in Hydrology. Then, he started work at the Bureau of Mines. For the last ten or fifteen years, he was with the USGS (United States Geological Survey) and retired about three years ago. He has a nice pension, and he did a lot of useful stuff. Also, when he graduated, he had virtually no education debt.

Mr. William J. Bryan III (Part II)

 

(Continued from Part I…)

How did you decide to join the military when you were in college?

I was so disgusted with Georgia Tech; I’d been beating my head against… I just needed to get away from my parents and get away from Atlanta. So, I went to an Army recruiter and said, “I’d like to join for two years.” [Recruiter said,] “You can’t join for two years. You have to join for three years.” “Okay I’ll join up for three years.” Bing! The recruiter’s eyes get big and said, “Boy, have I got a special program for you, but it’s a four-year commitment.” And I said, “what is it?” “It’s the Army Security Agency.” I said, “What’s that, a glorified name for an MP, Military Police?” He said, “No.” I said, “What is it?” He said, “I can’t tell you; it’s ‘SECRET.’” Boing! I was hooked!

They promised me that I’d get electronics training. I got in, and they said, “You’re not qualified for electronics training, Mr. Bryan.” I said, “Well, they said I could take classes which would make me qualified.” They said “Do you have it in writing?” That was the constant refrain of most of the guys that I talked with. I only met one person, Steve Holland, who got his promises in writing from the recruiter, and when he asserted his rights, the Army made his life Hell. Steve was one of the smartest, bravest people I’ve ever known, and I named my son after him. Steve didn’t have high school diploma; he had a GED!

They have a written rule in the military that once you graduate from Basic Training, the Army has six months to give you the class that you were promised. If they do not give you that class, you get an Honorable Discharge with all rights and benefits—education, VA benefit… Anyway, about three months after graduating from Basic Training, Steve had not gotten his class, so he wrote letters to his congressman. The Army didn’t like that, so they gave him what they call Permanent KP at Fort Devens, Massachusetts.

Steve would report in the morning at about six o’clock, and then he would work until 8 or 9 pm. They gave him the worst jobs possible: “Pots and Pans” and grease trap. They wouldn’t provide him with the protective gloves. You need to [have those gloves] when you’re doing pots and pans and grease. Your hands start turning… Anyway, so he bought some himself from the Devens’ PX. Well, the people who were giving him a hard time said, “Those aren’t Army-issued; you can’t use them.” “Well, issue me some,” Steve said. They wouldn’t issue him any, so he did it barehanded.

Then, he got “trench hand.” Ever heard of trench foot??? Oh yeah. [That’s what happened to people] especially during the Civil War and World War I. Is it pus and everything? You get trench foot when your feet are wet a lot and when they’re not allowed to dry. You’re feet just start dissolving. Anyway, his commanding officers wouldn’t let Steve go to the hospital or Sick Call. Finally, he did go to the hospital… without his officers’ permission. They didn’t like that either. Steve got a Doctor’s excuse saying that he did not have to do pots and pans or grease trap; he could do dry work for the next two or three weeks while his hands recuperated. Our Battalion commander, MoH winner LtC Millett, really didn’t like that!

Then, a month before the Army’s 6 month time limit was to expire, they gave Steve “FireWatch.” After Steve got off KP, he had to do eight hours of going around to see that the coal fire furnaces in the barracks had enough fuel. Also, he’d go through the barracks to see that nothing bad was happening. Officially, Steve’s commanding officers had Steve working twenty-four hours a day. The mess hall NCOIC thought Steve was getting a raw deal and allowed Steve to sleep a little bit at the cafeteria or the mess hall. Still, Steve was officially working 24 hours a day/7 days a week; and would until they broke him.

THAT created a congressional investigation to find out why these Official Turkeys—our officers—were harassing Steve so much. Eventually, he didn’t have to do the FireWatch, but he still had to do Permanent KP seven days a week. Two days before his sixth months were up, they shipped him off to Fort Meade, Maryland, which is “Spook Central.” Have you ever heard of the NSA? No. National Security Agency. They’re currently having a big boo-rah about monitoring American computer and telephone calls and billions of people world-wide who are being monitored (most everyday citizens). Anyway, they sent him there to the cryptographic repair machine school, which had something like an eighty percent dropout rate. It also involved some of the highest, TOP SECRET work in the US Army stuff.

Anyway, they sent him to Fort Meade, Maryland and I was sent down to ASASouthCom, Fort Clayton, Panama Canal Zone. A few months later, here comes Steve Holland. I said, “What happened?” He said, “Well, I graduated.” He was second in the class! Oh my goodness, wow. What can I say? It just showed what a person [can do.] I found out later that he only had an eighth grade education. His nickname was “The Duke,” which was sort of pejorative in a way because he was a quintessential nerd: pasty faced, thick glasses, short. It seemed like all the time, he was rumpled. Regular army guys just couldn’t stand his appearance.

When we get to SouthComs’ Ops Center, we had something like a big bank vault in the basement where Crypto was. Have you ever seen a bank vault? In movies. Yeah, well, the cryptographic people would come in, and they would relieve the previous shift. They’d lock that door, and they’d be in there for an eight-hour or ten-hour shift. What were they doing? They were cryptographic; they handled the code breaking, transmission of classified materials, and all that sort of thing. Wow. Then, they fed it to Fort Meade.

Was all this work for the effort of the Vietnam War?

This was for worldwide intelligence—Vietnam, Korea. In fact, this is a famous picture (showing me a picture of Pueblo crewmen prisoners giving the N Korean photographer “The Finger”). I played a small part trying to get these guys from becoming North Korean captives. These guys [in the picture] are U.S. Navy. Oh, okay. See, we were all part of the huge American intelligence gathering community. These guys were on a little intelligence gathering ship called the U.S.S. Pueblo. Here’s my Pueblo story:

One evening, I was drifting around our SouthComOps Center when one of the O5K guys said, “Bryan. Psst. Come with me.” He said, “Look at this.” It was an SOS from a ship, U.S.S. Pueblo. I said, “What the heck is the U.S.S. Pueblo? It says they’re off the Korean coast. We’re in Panama for crying out loud!” It was coming through loud—what we call 5 by 5—just a powerful, powerful signal.

O5K said, “This is weird. This is really weird. They say they’re a U.S. Navy ship, but it’s not a microwave or FM transmission. It’s unencrypted, and it’s on the International Emergency Band at 500KH—KiloHertz. What’s going on?”

I look. There were about two or three rows on the paper printout, and it was coming in real sloooww. “Hey!” said the O5K operator. “Are you O5H guys playing a joke on me?” (Some people did play practical jokes at our TOP SECRET facility… not me!)

I said, “If someone’s doing it, we need to spank him. Call Homestead to DF this transmission.” So he did. About two minutes later, klaxons go off in our Ops Center. This is a “Critique situation.” The head of our shift comes running in—Lt. something. I forgot his name. (He was real nice guy.) He comes running in and says, “This is legit, folks.”

A “Critique Situation” means that the transmissions that we’re picking up are fed directly to the president—President Johnson at that time—to his National Security Advisor, to The War Room, Joint Chiefs, etc. Everything that we get, they get almost instantaneously.

So did they find out what the ship was?

Oh yeah, they found out. That was the reason the klaxons went off—because these guys were doing what’s called a “touch-and-go operation.” The Pueblo was an old Liberty Ship from World War II converted to Intelligence work. They would go along the coast of North Korea and squish into North Korean territorial waters hoping to pick up SigInt, Signal Intelligence, and listen to the North Korean reaction with their electronic ears on for radar and other transmissions.

You don’t mess with the North Koreans. The Pueblo was supposed to have backup or a “Tripwire Protocol.” They were supposed to have constant radio communication with a carrier group. Something happened to communications.

Anyway, it was a big, long, pathetic story. In 2001, I got to meet the Pueblo’s Captain, Commander Bucher. Do you see what they’re doing [in the picture]? Not really. That’s a North Korean PR picture where they wanted to show the world that Pueblo crewmembers were being treated humanely. Oh, so they’re POWs. In that picture, yeah, they’re POWs.

Why was this ship on the coast of Panama?

No, it wasn’t off the coast of Panama, where I was. They were in Korea, North Korea. Microwave and FM signals are pretty much line of sight. An AM transmission uses the ionosphere; it can bounce. That’s why somebody with a—are you familiar with amateur radio? You mean just like radio waves? They call them Ham Operators. They operate on FM and AM. With a 50 Watt, AM transmitter, you could communicate with someone on the other side of the world, and it could come in clear as a bell if the conditions were just right. And that’s what happened to us.

So you were the ones who found out that these men were prisoners of war?

No. They weren’t prisoners at that time. North Korean jets and torpedo boats were attacking them. Without backup. They didn’t have backup. Right, well, they were supposed to have backup.

In July 2001, they had a plaque presentation down at the POW museum in Andersonville. I’ve been there, yeah. Okay. Considering how bleak the prisoners of war subject is, it was very inspiring place. Anyway, on that date, they had most of the surviving members of the Pueblo and Commander Bucher. They also had Rolling Thunder (a POW advocacy group) down there. A bunch of the guys had been on the carrier group that was supposed to provide them backup. They also had some people from NSA and CIA who were there.

Everybody was talking about why Johnson did not do anything to save these guys from being taken prisoner. The North Koreans and the Russians made a tremendous intelligence coup because the Pueblo’s crew wasn’t able to destroy all their crypto equipment and graphic machines. AND! Somebody put huge amounts of CIA, NSA archival material in the Pueblo as ballast, and it went all the way back to World War I! Anyway, I got to shake hands with Commander Bucher, and I gave him one of my handouts. Oh my goodness.

Anyway like Forrest Gump, I’ve been at a lot of interesting turns of history. Unfortunately, you don’t know anything; you’ve never heard of the Pueblo, but…

Well, you know, now that you’ve explained it and stuff, it does sound familiar.

See, only we were getting the Pueblo’s radio transmission; a carrier group was less than fifty miles away from the Pueblo, but they weren’t getting any of the SOS transmissions. The signal was going up and bouncing across them. It would bounce, bounce, and finally, it hit us around five thousand miles away, coming in as clear as a bell. That’s why what we were doing was so critical. That’s incredible.

That was one of only two critiques in the eighteen months I was at Fort Clayton. Beautiful, beautiful country—beautiful. A lot of military were retiring down there. Where is that? Panama. Not the Canal Zone, but the country of Panama. Well, the Canal Zone was very beautiful; it was like colonial Britain with these big beautiful white buildings with red tile roofs like SouthCom’s barracks. From a distance, they looked beautiful in big red tile roofs, but when you get into them, there was no air conditioning except for the officers and the Day Room.

Anyway, Panama is a very tropical place, and there are all sorts of things that grow down there. Every morning, your shoes would be covered with a thin layer of green fungi.

Wasn’t Jimmy Carter the one who gave the Panama Canal to Panama?

Yep, in the Canal Zone Treaty it said we could stay there for another ninety-nine years, but Carter chose not to renew the agreement signed back in 1903 by Teddy Roosevelt. Yes, Carter gave it back. There were a lot of us who were bitter about that because almost immediately Red Chinese Army “fronts” started putting a move on it. They are now controlling a lot of the Panama Canal. Oh, I didn’t even realize that.

A number of us think that they’re putting into place what are called “set charges” to destroy the canal in case of a big, huge emergency—like a war with the US.

So what other kind of history have you witnessed?

When I was down there—have you ever seen the Woody Allen movie Bananas? No. Okay. That’s when Woody Allen was funny! Anyway, in Bananas, they are doing a takeoff on a coup that’s going to occur, and they have [the main actor] describing it like it’s a sports event.

And is this the president of Panama? Well, no. In Bananas, the reason they call it “Bananas” is because the United Fruit Company had a lot of interest down in Central America. Bananas were one of their big, profitable fruits. We intervened in Nicaragua, Costa Rica, Panama, and Mexico. I’m trying to think if there’s any nation in Central America that we haven’t stuck our U.S. Marines in. I guess the only one may have been Belize, AKA British Honduras, but we’ve been a big bad bully in Central America for various, politically connected US companies.

In 1968, Panama had a free and open election, and candidate Arias won in a landslide. The commander of the Guardia National, Omar Torrijos was supposed to have a coup before the results were known because we pretty much knew Arias was going to be elected. He was anti-American and wanted to kick us out of the Canal Zone. Torrijos knew that if Arias came into power, he would kick Omar Torrijos out. It might not be very happy for Mr. Torrijos. So he said…(Mr. Bryan grumbles).

Torrijos allowed the people to elect Arias; he allowed them to have their victory celebrations. Then, about two days later, he sent Arias and his family, friends and relatives to exile in Miami, Florida. During this coup, only one or two people got killed, and that was mainly because of some college students who just didn’t take it.

They took their election too seriously. I mean, it was a joke—in a way. We were on alert for about seventy-two hours because we knew it was coming. Torrijos and the Guardia National did a really good job of just clapping down because the guys in the Guardia National pretty much knew that if Arias came in, they were out.

Was Torrijos pro-American?

Well, I liked Torrijos. I have a friend, Colonel Bill Camper, who was down there at the same time I was (different unit), and he liked Torrijo, too. Giving the reasons why I did like him would take a long time to explain, though.

Still, in the main, our US Government was acting like a big spoiled kid. (Read The Ugly American.) A lot of the Panamanians liked us as individual Americans, but they did not like our American government policies. That’s the message I got wherever I went, whether it was Thailand or talking to people from the Middle East or Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, India. They just want us to mind our own business. Yes. Those foreign people are begging, “Leave us alone! Leave us alone.” Our leaders then and now just don’t want to do that.

 

(To be continued in Part III…)